Low Fat Diet

Question:

I have had sleep apnea for quite some time (un-diagnosed).

Sleep apnea is a known side effect of TRT. It is not surprising that yours has been exacerbated. A sleep study may be helpful, as it can wreak havock with not only your T level but long term quality of life. Nothing to take lightly. I also have been in chronic pain management for 15 years. The latest pain med that is working wonderfully is methadone. A side effect is low T. I may have had low T before, I never tested for it. I have been on 5mg androgel/day for 6 months. I still have had a whale of a time with my apnea. My moods definately smoothed out. I have noticed that my testicles have gotten 30%smaller though.

Not unexpected. Your endogeneous T production has been surpressed. I will be on the methadone for ever as 20 surgeries have only stablized my physical problem and have left me in need of pain management forever. My sex drive is still good. One side effect of the methadone is at times, I can not cum!! Too bad my wife is overworked and under stress all the time! When younger, we would go at it every day. With my ability to stay hard for 1-2 hours, goes unappreciated Everything I read says a woman reaches her sexual prime at 40. My real concern here is, am I going to wind up with testicles the size of grapes? Will the size of my testicles return after stopping adrogel therapy?

Not sure how small they’ll get. Others on TRT may chime in.  It has been reported (I believe) that size can return somewhat after cessation of the TRT. Tom

Response:

Have the Doc check your Estradiol level. Mine was very high, 10 points over the top part of the range. I started taking a quarter tab of Arimidex every other day, and my muscle soreness subsided immensely. I am feeling stronger at the gym and am able to work out longer. Also, about 8 weeks ago, my doctor (I finally found a good one, he graduated from Harvard Medical School, and he is a good listener) tested my blood for diabetes, I did not have diabetes, but he suggested I go on a controlled carb diet. (I needed to lose some weight) Previously, the majority of my calories consumed every day were carbs. (I followed a low fat diet regime for about 20 years) I believe I was consuming around 200 to 300 grams of carbs per day. I have since changed that to about 80 to 100 grams of carbs per day, and I am consuming a little more healthy fats, (olive oil, nuts,) and a little more protein. I am feeling better now than I have in 10 years. And I have lost 15lbs. in 2 months. I believe my insulin blood level has dropped. I’m sleeping a lot better too. Just my thoughts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello – Since folks in this group seem pretty experienced on this subject, I thought I would relate my situation and ask if I should pursue this any further. I am a 31 year old male.  For a long time I have had bouts with fairly severe and unexplainable muscle soreness.  I am also experiencing fatigue. Seems like every day after work I come home and fall asleep for a little while.  On weekends I sleep much more.  Sometimes I also have insomnia. Sexual function is OK.  I am pretty light in the body hair department. After reading here I decided to see my doctor and ask to be tested for low testosterone.  He looked at me like I was crazy, but agreed to test me.  The result was 471 (I didn’t get the normal range from him but I believe the low end was 280 or so).  He suggested that mine was normal and so couldn’t be causing my fatigue and soreness.  My blood was taken at 11am on a day that I was feeling pretty good (i.e. I had no soreness or fatigue).  Is this considered a T level that is low (or could it be low for me)?  Is it possible or probable that I would have a lower T level on those days that I feel worse? After arguing a little my doctor agreed to refer me to an endocrinologist, but still looked at me like I was crazy.  I am trying to decide if I should continue this or let it go and try to find other things causing my muscle pain and fatigue. Thanks in advance for any advice. Chris Please remove the nospam. if emailing me directly.

Response:

The question is similar to the old chicken/egg tale. Does low T cause the sleep problems, or do sleep problems lead to low T? Sounds like the former in your case, but I’m sure many docs would say mental stress = poor sleep = low T. Anyone else note significant improvement in sleep following correction of low T? Tom

I agree. It would seem that low T caused my poor sleep since raising it cured the problem. But maybe stress caused the sleep problems resulting in low T to start with but intervention by TRT over rode things. Who knows! Obviously they are interrelated and TRT has fixed things. Mike

Response:

I have had sleep apnea for quite some time (un-diagnosed) I also have been in chronic pain management for 15 years. The latest pain med that is working wonderfully is methadone. A side effect is low T. I may have had low T before, I never tested for it. I have been on 5mg androgel/day for 6 months. I still have had a whale of a time with my apnea. My moods definately smoothed out. I have noticed that my testicles have gotten 30%smaller though. I will be on the methadone for ever as 20 surgeries have only stablized my physical problem and have left me in need of pain management forever. My sex drive is still good. One side effect of the methadone is at times, I can not cum!! Too bad my wife is overworked and under stress all the time! When younger, we would go at it every day. With my ability to stay hard for 1-2 hours, goes unappreciated Everything I read says a woman reaches her sexual prime at 40. My real concern here is, am I going to wind up with testicles the size of grapes? Will the size of my testicles return after stopping adrogel therapy? Thanks in advance for the replies. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doctor and I investigated the possibility of sleep apnea causing all of this, but after a sleep test and cpap it doesn’t seem to be the case.  He did in fact check my thyroid level and said it was fine. There are bound to be lots of causes for sleep apnea and disturbed sleep patterns. If you aren’t sleeping well, it screws up everything. I know that when my T was low, I’d wake up in the middle of the night and not be able to go back to sleep, I’d snore like a buzz saw, I’d have to take a nap in the evening or just pass out. Once I got on the correct dosage of androgel, ALL these symptoms just went away. I am able to sleep normally now. Mike The question is similar to the old chicken/egg tale. Does low T cause the sleep problems, or do sleep problems lead to low T? Sounds like the former in your case, but I’m sure many docs would say mental stress = poor sleep = low T. Anyone else note significant improvement in sleep following correction of low T? Tom

Response:

My doctor and I investigated the possibility of sleep apnea causing all of this, but after a sleep test and cpap it doesn’t seem to be the case.  He did in fact check my thyroid level and said it was fine. There are bound to be lots of causes for sleep apnea and disturbed sleep patterns. If you aren’t sleeping well, it screws up everything. I know that when my T was low, I’d wake up in the middle of the night and not be able to go back to sleep, I’d snore like a buzz saw, I’d have to take a nap in the evening or just pass out. Once I got on the correct dosage of androgel, ALL these symptoms just went away. I am able to sleep normally now. Mike

The question is similar to the old chicken/egg tale. Does low T cause the sleep problems, or do sleep problems lead to low T? Sounds like the former in your case, but I’m sure many docs would say mental stress = poor sleep = low T. Anyone else note significant improvement in sleep following correction of low T? Tom

Response:

I have tried many times in the past to lift weights.  It just does not seem to work right.  I am able to increase poundages for a week or two, but after that my muscles seem to refuse to ‘rebuild’ themselves.  I have experimented with 1,2,3 and 4 days of rest in-between training to no avail.  These days, I don’t know where I would get the energy to lift anymore. I can remember a time when I was 16 and still growing.  I worked my way up to a 200 lb. bench press.  All I can do now is 80 and work my way up to 90. My doctor and I investigated the possibility of sleep apnea causing all of this, but after a sleep test and cpap it doesn’t seem to be the case.  He did in fact check my thyroid level and said it was fine.

Your initial post sounded like you may have been overtraining, without enough food intake/calories, which would cause many of your symptoms. Guess we can rule that out at this time. See what the endo has to say. Tom

Response:

My doctor and I investigated the possibility of sleep apnea causing all of this, but after a sleep test and cpap it doesn’t seem to be the case.  He did in fact check my thyroid level and said it was fine.

There are bound to be lots of causes for sleep apnea and disturbed sleep patterns. If you aren’t sleeping well, it screws up everything. I know that when my T was low, I’d wake up in the middle of the night and not be able to go back to sleep, I’d snore like a buzz saw, I’d have to take a nap in the evening or just pass out. Once I got on the correct dosage of androgel, ALL these symptoms just went away. I am able to sleep normally now. Mike

Response:

You have all the symptoms. 470 is sort of low, especially for your age. I know that when I made my first trip to the endo because of how I felt and she found my t level about where yours is and refused to do anything. My T level continued to drop and I felt worse and worse until it was low enough for a doctor to deside to do something. If it is not low T, then what is the doctor’s best guess as to what it IS or what sorts of tests should be performed to find out what it IS? A man’s T level normally fluxuates from a high in the pre-dawn hours to a low in the late afternoon. Back when my T level first started getting low-ish, I’d wake up feeling pretty good but crash by late afternoon/early evening. You might schedule blood work as late in the afternoon as possible to see just how low it goes. Good luck. Mike

Response:

471 ng/dl is a little low for an average 31 yr old. However it’s not low enough that I’d immediately blame your symptoms on it. Having your free T number (along with ref range) would be more meaningful. That accounts for binding globulin. It’s conceivable your T level might be lower on days you feel worse. It’s not the first thing I’d expect, but it wouldn’t hurt to test it then. Based on your symptoms, I think further medical examination is called for. Probably a full hormone panel wouldn’t hurt, along with whatever other tests a Dr thinks appropriate. — Joe D.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello – Since folks in this group seem pretty experienced on this subject, I thought I would relate my situation and ask if I should pursue this any further. I am a 31 year old male.  For a long time I have had bouts with fairly severe and unexplainable muscle soreness.  I am also experiencing fatigue. Seems like every day after work I come home and fall asleep for a little while.  On weekends I sleep much more.  Sometimes I also have insomnia. Sexual function is OK.  I am pretty light in the body hair department. After reading here I decided to see my doctor and ask to be tested for low testosterone.  He looked at me like I was crazy, but agreed to test me.  The result was 471 (I didn’t get the normal range from him but I believe the low end was 280 or so).  He suggested that mine was normal and so couldn’t be causing my fatigue and soreness.  My blood was taken at 11am on a day that I was feeling pretty good (i.e. I had no soreness or fatigue).  Is this considered a T level that is low (or could it be low for me)?  Is it possible or probable that I would have a lower T level on those days that I feel worse? After arguing a little my doctor agreed to refer me to an endocrinologist, but still looked at me like I was crazy.  I am trying to decide if I should continue this or let it go and try to find other things causing my muscle pain and fatigue. Thanks in advance for any advice. Chris

Chris, Based on your age, may I ask if you train with weights and/or exercise alot? What about diet and exercise? You tale sounds just like me. Tom

Response:

The result was 471 (I didn’t get the normal range from him but I believe the low end was 280 or so).  He suggested that mine was normal and so couldn’t be

Hormones are like a car engine. Sometimes just a little tweaking makes the whole thing run differently so no one can say what the right level is for you. However, your T does not appear to be low to me.  You are at 471 around 11 in the morning which is not the top part of the daily cycle.  Probably (guessing here) you were closer to 600 at six in the morning which would be a very substantial level of T. The point remains however that you dont feel well so your doctor should be working with you,and the idea of looking at your T level is a very reasonable thing to check out even if only to eliminate. Your growth hormone level is probably low or worth investigating.  However daily injections are so overwhelmingly expensive that most patients and doctors dont dare to even think about it.  I assume your doc is at least looking at thyroid and all of that without a lot of resistance. Stay with the idea of seeing the endocrinoligst.  It will at least provide you with some more data and test results and your issues could be one of the mainstream ones that mainstream endos know about. Winter

Response:

471 is a little low.  Average for your age would, I think, be about 700 or perhaps slightly higher.  The symptoms are consistent with low testosterone although there could be another cause altogether.  I think it’s probably worth investigating further, also maybe having a blood test on a day when you’re feeling tired, achy, etc. Also if your doctor DOESN’T think this is the cause, does he have any explanation for what the cause is?  Or any other investigations he’d like to do?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello – Since folks in this group seem pretty experienced on this subject, I thought I would relate my situation and ask if I should pursue this any further. I am a 31 year old male.  For a long time I have had bouts with fairly severe and unexplainable muscle soreness.  I am also experiencing fatigue. Seems like every day after work I come home and fall asleep for a little while.  On weekends I sleep much more.  Sometimes I also have insomnia. Sexual function is OK.  I am pretty light in the body hair department. After reading here I decided to see my doctor and ask to be tested for low testosterone.  He looked at me like I was crazy, but agreed to test me. The result was 471 (I didn’t get the normal range from him but I believe the low end was 280 or so).  He suggested that mine was normal and so couldn’t be causing my fatigue and soreness.  My blood was taken at 11am on a day that I was feeling pretty good (i.e. I had no soreness or fatigue).  Is this considered a T level that is low (or could it be low for me)?  Is it possible or probable that I would have a lower T level on those days that I feel worse? After arguing a little my doctor agreed to refer me to an endocrinologist, but still looked at me like I was crazy.  I am trying to decide if I should continue this or let it go and try to find other things causing my muscle pain and fatigue. Thanks in advance for any advice. Chris Please remove the nospam. if emailing me directly.

Response: