Low Fat Diet

Question:

I consume about a pound of cottage cheese a week –that works out to able half a cup a day for the workday (I don’t eat it on weekends). I usually buy Trader Joe’s brand of organic fat free cottage cheese, since it tends to taste "milkier" than others I’ve tried. Today I just noticed the cholesterol content in this version of cottage cheese –5mg– and I’m wondering if I should be concerned about this. I know five milligrams is rather negligible, but keep in mind that I do eat quite a bit of cottage cheese throughout the year.

How much cholesterol are you eating per day? Many authorities recommend keeping your intake under 300 milligrams per day. I don’t think your cottage cheese is anything to worry about. — Phil M.

Response:

I consume about a pound of cottage cheese a week –that works out to able half a cup a day for the workday (I don’t eat it on weekends). I usually buy Trader Joe’s brand of organic fat free cottage cheese, since it tends to taste "milkier" than others I’ve tried. Today I just noticed the cholesterol content in this version of cottage cheese –5mg– and I’m wondering if I should be concerned about this. I know five milligrams is rather negligible, but keep in mind that I do eat quite a bit of cottage cheese throughout the year.

5mg is not so much. About half of all foods in the US Department of Agriculture food database have more than 5mg! http://www.foodfileonline.com/search?f=cholestrl+%3E%3D+5 I probably don’t get enough protein for my resistance and cardio regimen, but I try to keep a conscious effort to take in as much as possible. I usually get my protein via soy-based proteins, beans, and cottage cheese. What are other sources (other than whey powder, etc.) for protein besides meat and cheese?

http://tinyurl.com/8pcc9 Will

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I consume about a pound of cottage cheese a week –that works out to able half a cup a day for the workday (I don’t eat it on weekends). I usually buy Trader Joe’s brand of organic fat free cottage cheese, since it tends to taste "milkier" than others I’ve tried. Today I just noticed the cholesterol content in this version of cottage cheese –5mg– and I’m wondering if I should be concerned about this. I know five milligrams is rather negligible, but keep in mind that I do eat quite a bit of cottage cheese throughout the year. I don’t eat any red meat and only very rarely do I eat pork. I do enjoy seafood of all kinds (my favourite things in the world are scallops, shrimp, and lobster, not to mention fish!) and enjoy the occasional chicken. I know cholesterol is found mostly in animal-based products and I try to stay away whenever I can. I probably don’t get enough protein for my resistance and cardio regimen, but I try to keep a conscious effort to take in as much as possible. I usually get my protein via soy-based proteins, beans, and cottage cheese. What are other sources (other than whey powder, etc.) for protein besides meat and cheese? HS.

I wouldn’t worry much about the cholesterol in the cottage cheese as much as the sodium, however I don’t know the sodium content of the TJ brand you mentioned.  If you’re eating soy-based protein like meat replacements and tofu along with beans and dairy you are probably getting enough protein each day.  You might want to try logging some days in Fitday to see. A recent study said that protein is more likely to help you feel satiated than either fat or carbohydrate.  Of course the study only has a 44% chance of being valid. — the volleyballchick

Response:

I consume about a pound of cottage cheese a week –that works out to able half a cup a day for the workday (I don’t eat it on weekends). I usually buy Trader Joe’s brand of organic fat free cottage cheese, since it tends to taste "milkier" than others I’ve tried. Today I just noticed the cholesterol content in this version of cottage cheese –5mg– and I’m wondering if I should be concerned about this. I know five milligrams is rather negligible, but keep in mind that I do eat quite a bit of cottage cheese throughout the year. I don’t eat any red meat and only very rarely do I eat pork. I do enjoy seafood of all kinds (my favourite things in the world are scallops, shrimp, and lobster, not to mention fish!) and enjoy the occasional chicken. I know cholesterol is found mostly in animal-based products and I try to stay away whenever I can. I probably don’t get enough protein for my resistance and cardio regimen, but I try to keep a conscious effort to take in as much as possible. I usually get my protein via soy-based proteins, beans, and cottage cheese. What are other sources (other than whey powder, etc.) for protein besides meat and cheese? HS.

Response:

I probably don’t get enough protein for my resistance and cardio regimen, but I try to keep a conscious effort to take in as much as possible. I usually get my protein via soy-based proteins, beans, and cottage cheese. What are other sources (other than whey powder, etc.) for protein besides meat and cheese?

nuts and seeds. buckwheat and some grains. example: make a higher-protein, low sugar granola. or make oatmeal and add almonds or sunflower seeds. something that i really enjoy is mixing sunflower seeds and a little jam with cottage cheese and then putting it on toast. make sure that you are pairing your beans with a whole grain or your protein is not complete. i’m trying to cut back on my meat as well (driving by a slaughterhouse out west + the price of organic meat will do that) and i get my protein mostly through cottage cheese, nuts, legumes and other dairy products. i eat very little soy-based protein because i really don’t like it much for taste and i’ve read that all the processing creates an poorer product. i only eat tofu in traditional dishes (like miso soup, mm), or tempeh (fermented soy) sometimes. sometimes i think our (i.e. the daily person’s) need for protein is a little overexaggerated, especially with the low-carb craze thing. 1g per kg should be sufficient unless you’re working to build muscle. some people need more because of medical issues but for a ‘regular’ person it should be easy to get the amount of protein needed. i try to go at least 15g per meal and then space out another 15g through snacks, resulting in 60-80g per day.

Response:

I consume about a pound of cottage cheese a week –that works out to able half a cup a day for the workday (I don’t eat it on weekends). I usually buy Trader Joe’s brand of organic fat free cottage cheese, since it tends to taste "milkier" than others I’ve tried. Today I just noticed the cholesterol content in this version of cottage cheese five milligrams is rather negligible, but keep in mind that I do eat quite a bit of cottage cheese throughout the year. I am not one of those people who are afraid of and fear cholesterol, but 5 mg is indeed such a negligible amount that it is not even worth thinking about. National guildelines suggest to eat under 300 mg of cholesterol per day.

Moreover, with typical poor diets that include French fries, these puny quantities should not be accounted for. If one wants to cut down cholesterol altogether, giving up cheese is probably not something that needs will power. I moved from cheese to mayonnaise some years back. I don’t eat any red meat and only very rarely do I eat pork. I do enjoy seafood of all kinds (my favourite things in the world are scallops, shrimp, and lobster, not to mention fish!) and enjoy the occasional chicken. I know cholesterol is found mostly in animal-based products and I try to stay away whenever I can. There is quite a bit of cholesterol in shrimp and lobster. 3 oz of shtimp contain 166 mg of cholesterol. That would be an equivalent of 33 portions of cottage cheese. http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s037y.html

I assume that most people eat shrimp at a small dosages and on rare occasions. Making the exception and eating luxurious seafoods doesn’t compare to an unhealthy daily/regular diet. I probably don’t get enough protein for my resistance and cardio regimen, but I try to keep a conscious effort to take in as much as possible. I usually get my protein via soy-based proteins, beans, and cottage cheese. What are other sources (other than whey powder, etc.) for protein besides meat and cheese?

I eat a good deal of tuna, which is _relatively_ low in terms of saturated fat and malignant cholesterol. Tuna is very rich in protein too. I have been on this dietary regimen for several years and my most recent blood test showed the benefits. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – peanuts are one example that you could try. You may visit one of those popular heart attack risk calculators. You may find out that your heart attack risk is negligible because you are young and very slim. (IIRC) Human bodies produce several times more cholesterol than we’d normally eat in food. There is no good proof that eating cholesterol actually increases risk of heart disease. Heart attack victims who were put on a low fat diet, did not reduce their mortality and died of second heart attacks just as often. (I can provide references). Even if you wanted to stay under the guideline of 300 mg of cholesterol per day, you could eat large quantities of that cottage cheese with 5 mg of cholesterol per serving. You are worried about issues of little relevance to your health.

The coronary veins will clog up, as far as I know, if your bloodstream contains, over the period of many years, too much cholesterol that the liver (IIRC) cannot process. The younger and healthier you are, the more productive the liver will be, or so I assume… Roy PS – i, You’re here as well?!?! Longevity is sure important to those among us who sit in front of the monitor all day… — Roy S. Schestowitz http://Schestowitz.com

Response:

I consume about a pound of cottage cheese a week –that works out to able half a cup a day for the workday (I don’t eat it on weekends). I usually buy Trader Joe’s brand of organic fat free cottage cheese, since it tends to taste "milkier" than others I’ve tried. Today I just noticed the cholesterol content in this version of cottage cheese five milligrams is rather negligible, but keep in mind that I do eat quite a bit of cottage cheese throughout the year.

I am not one of those people who are afraid of and fear cholesterol, but 5 mg is indeed such a negligible amount that it is not even worth thinking about. National guildelines suggest to eat under 300 mg of cholesterol per day. I don’t eat any red meat and only very rarely do I eat pork. I do enjoy seafood of all kinds (my favourite things in the world are scallops, shrimp, and lobster, not to mention fish!) and enjoy the occasional chicken. I know cholesterol is found mostly in animal-based products and I try to stay away whenever I can.

There is quite a bit of cholesterol in shrimp and lobster. 3 oz of shtimp contain 166 mg of cholesterol. That would be an equivalent of 33 portions of cottage cheese. http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s037y.html I probably don’t get enough protein for my resistance and cardio regimen, but I try to keep a conscious effort to take in as much as possible. I usually get my protein via soy-based proteins, beans, and cottage cheese. What are other sources (other than whey powder, etc.) for protein besides meat and cheese?

peanuts are one example that you could try. You may visit one of those popular heart attack risk calculators. You may find out that your heart attack risk is negligible because you are young and very slim. (IIRC) Human bodies produce several times more cholesterol than we’d normally eat in food. There is no good proof that eating cholesterol actually increases risk of heart disease. Heart attack victims who were put on a low fat diet, did not reduce their mortality and died of second heart attacks just as often. (I can provide references). Even if you wanted to stay under the guideline of 300 mg of cholesterol per day, you could eat large quantities of that cottage cheese with 5 mg of cholesterol per serving. You are worried about issues of little relevance to your health. i

Response:

Question:

Hi, all      After reading about the FitDay.com software online, I thought I’d try it.  Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.  Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.  That’s a gimme.  What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?  I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.  I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.  Not sure you would want to.     I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04).  It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.      Just wanted some input from those of you that have info on stuff like this. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all      After reading about the FitDay.com software online, I thought I’d try it.  Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.  Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.  That’s a gimme.  What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?  I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.  I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.  Not sure you would want to.     I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04).  It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.      Just wanted some input from those of you that have info on stuff like this. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

I would argue that you *are* following Atkins – because that diet is about *sufficient* carbs. True, you are not following induction, but you are trying to find the "right" amount of carbs, which is what Atkins was actually on about. I found just by eliminating refined carbs from my diet, I was able to make carbs the lowest of the C/P/F balance quite easily, and that’s as far as I think I need to take it. — Succorso

Response:

A low carb diet that is practiced as low fat has less chance for bringing about weight loss. That happens for a couple of reasons, one is that excess protein is converted to sugar, and second is that it is difficult to eat the necessary quantity of protein. Eating protein without increasing fat is possible, a lot of meats such as turkey breast are fat free.

Interesting.  I’m not really sure that I would even need to worry about the fat at this point.  It has got to be better to have this much weight off, pretty much regardless of how it’s done (within reason).  I guess just seeing the graph surprised me for some reason.  You know, out of sight out of mind.  I’ve been so fixated on the carbs that I didn’t even think about the fat level. This has been discussed many times in alt.support.diet.low-carb.

I’m sure, but I don’t find the "atmosphere" conducive to learning.  I could try and search the archives.  That would limit exposure to the group. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

I would argue that you *are* following Atkins – because that diet is about *sufficient* carbs. True, you are not following induction, but you are trying to find the "right" amount of carbs, which is what Atkins was actually on about.

Well, if you put it that way, okay.  :)  Really, I’m just keeping the carbs down by not eating regular pasta, potatoes, rice, refined sugar. I have been eating more vegetables:  broccoli, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, green beans. I’ve been cooking with less butter/oil/etc, so the vegetables are prepared healthier. I found just by eliminating refined carbs from my diet, I was able to make carbs the lowest of the C/P/F balance quite easily, and that’s as far as I think I need to take it.

If I remember correctly, the C/P/F ratio was around 10%/45%/45% over the last few days.  I like the fact I don’t really have cravings and very seldom get "hungry" unless I have gone over 5 hours without eating.  Hopefully, my blood chemistry will remain good and I’ll not have to worry about it right now.  Kinda scared to increase the carbs too much, don’t know how my system would react to it. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all     After reading about the FitDay.com software online, I thought I’d try it.  Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.  Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.  That’s a gimme.  What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?  I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.  I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.  Not sure you would want to.    I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04). It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.     Just wanted some input from those of you that have info on stuff like this. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Look at you sliding down the scale! I remember the day you posted that you broke 300 — excellent progress, Donna! I am currently trying to figure out my correct balance on FitDay too — I am going to take my laptop to my next nutritionist visit and see if he can help me adjust my numbers. Right now I am kind of going for fat 30%, carb 40% and protein 30%, which is the Zone. But I find that I am going over 30% on fat, and am trying to get that down while getting protein up. So I am interested to see how it continues for you. Mary

Response:

I really like the software.  I’m using the online version to see if I want to buy it.  Do you use the online software or have you purchased it?  I’m not sure it would be worth it or not.  I’ll need to check into it further before I decide.

I got the FitDay PC software last w/e & I’m quite pleased. Having it on your own PC makes it a lot faster than using the online version & you can easily check out previous days without the dreaded waits. There’s a good database of foods with full nutrition info as well calories burnt in all sorts of activities. You can assess your caloric requirements, estimate your daily restriction, set weight goals, calculate your BMI, etc. You can probably do all this on the Net but ths is a lot faster. For $20, I think it’s worth it.

Response:

Low Carb + Low Fat fails.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all      After reading about the FitDay.com software online, I thought I’d try it.  Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.  Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.  That’s a gimme.  What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?  I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.  I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.  Not sure you would want to.     I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04).  It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.      Just wanted some input from those of you that have info on stuff like this. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

I never thought I would actually make it below 200. It took 22

years–eek! But you made it!!!!  That’s all that matters.  :) Response regarding FitDay software I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are.

Price is great.  I really have gotten to like the online version, so I’d probably like the real version, too.  Just have to scrape together $20 bucks, then I’ll buy it. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.

Okay.  Equal calories or equal grams? Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.

For percentages, sure. What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?

Not unless you are already in your last 10 pounds or maybe 20.  Once low in carbs decreasing fat stops helping. The reason is hormonal.  Eat low enough carbs to be in ketosis and your insulin falls below some threshhold. Eat even less and all you’re doing is working towards starvation mode triggered by thryoid-T3/leptin feedback. Eat more fat and your body releases more glucagon; eat less fat and your body releases less glucagon.  It’s an indirect reaction that includes adrenaline feedback. Here’s the key: Glucagon level determines the rate of fat withdrawal.  More dietary fat, indirectly more glucagon, more fat withdrawn, higher resting metabolism. As you approach an overeating level this gets overwhelmed, no free lunch and no unlimited fat.  Less dietary fat, indirectly less glucagon, less fat withdrawn, lower resting metabolism.  As you approach starvation the decrease doesn’t hit zero so the big hammer approach of starvation does trigger some loss. I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.

You can’t tell if you’re strict from your carb intake. As long as you’re in ketosis then you count as strict or not depending on what order you added your carbs.  Strict is about adherence to the process not about lowness of carb count. I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.

Whey/soy/egg protien isolate powder.  Yuck in quantity. Not sure you would want to.

Since it is merely extra calories that don’t much effect withdrawal of fat, agreed.  Then again the optimal loss is getting down to your lowest safe level of protein and making up the calories with fat.  Doing that (per the hormonal feedback loops above) does work to bust stalls, but eating small amounts of very greasy meat is yuck as well. I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May

If it’s going well, don’t break it. and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04).  It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.

Dr Atkins claimed 80% of folks see better blood results after 6 months on his plan.  Given posted numbers this appears to be true.  You aren’t actually doing Atkins but close enough that I suggest you have that 80% chance after doing it 6+ months.

Response:

I think that the progress that you are having cannot be described as anything but "wonderful".

Thank You so much.  I’m really kind of shocked myself.  Maybe it was just time for things to start clicking.  I can only hope/work that it continues.  :) Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

Look at you sliding down the scale! I remember the day you posted that you broke 300 — excellent progress, Donna!

Thank You!!!  I’m kinda amazed myself.  I don’t think I really thought I would make it below 300, now I’m looking at 275! I am currently trying to figure out my correct balance on FitDay too — I am going to take my laptop to my next nutritionist visit and see if he can help me adjust my numbers. Right now I am kind of going for fat 30%, carb 40% and protein 30%, which is the Zone. But I find that I am going over 30% on fat, and am trying to get that down while getting protein up. So I am interested to see how it continues for you.

I really like the software.  I’m using the online version to see if I want to buy it.  Do you use the online software or have you purchased it?  I’m not sure it would be worth it or not.  I’ll need to check into it further before I decide. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

Look at you sliding down the scale! I remember the day you posted that you broke 300 — excellent progress, Donna! Thank You!!!  I’m kinda amazed myself.  I don’t think I really thought I would make it below 300, now I’m looking at 275!

I never thought I would actually make it below 200. It took 22 years–eek! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently trying to figure out my correct balance on FitDay too — I am going to take my laptop to my next nutritionist visit and see if he can help me adjust my numbers. Right now I am kind of going for fat 30%, carb 40% and protein 30%, which is the Zone. But I find that I am going over 30% on fat, and am trying to get that down while getting protein up. So I am interested to see how it continues for you. I really like the software.  I’m using the online version to see if I want to buy it.  Do you use the online software or have you purchased it?  I’m not sure it would be worth it or not.  I’ll need to check into it further before I decide.

I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are. Mary

Response:

Different things work for different people.  Just as some people do well on low carb due to things like insulin resistance, there are those who end up not doing well with a fatty diet (even "good" fats) because of things like liver problems.  Lower fat diets have been very successful for dieters in the past (including the majority on the National Weight Loss Registrty) and tend to work fine especially when the fat is *not* replaced by sugar like many "fat-free" products are.

I also try to avoid sugar since it provides just empty calories & they say eating sugar makes you crave more sugar. I’m not really sure whether this applies to me, I seem to go through ’sweet’ periods and ’savoury’ periods in my life. But I’m not worried about sugar in fruit like some people, I think the nutritional value & taste of fresh fruit more than make up for it. Personally if I go over a certain amount of fat over the course of a few days I will then end up puking my guts out for days to follow.  Fat is also a binge trigger for me and studies of binge eaters have shown that a typical binge is much higher in fat than any other macronutrient, including carbs. I try to keep my fat intake to 20-25% of my total calories unless I’m having an episode with my liver and then I have to shoot for 10% or less.

According to Fitday, I average 23% fat. I try to avoid fat most of the time but I think it would be difficult to go as low as 10%, you probably have to study the labels of everything very carefully to achieve such low levels.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yet low fatting works for a percentage of thepopulation. with shooting hunger and deprivation. I lost 50lbs and wasn’t hungry at all and I still had caloric room for not exactly healthy food like In N Out. I felt a weird "10% distress" signal a lot, but that was probably because I was losing at an agressive 2lbs/week (~1%/mass/week). Low fat does work for me, I have tried low carb a few times but my body doesn’t like it at all, I end up with very low energy & feeling like I’m catching the flu.. With a good supply of carbs from fruit & veg, cereal & fiber crackers I can go quite low on the calories & still feel great, most of the time without hunger. I do eat smoked salmon once or twice a week for its fish oil & use the odd teaspon of olive oil here’n'there but I don’t see the reason to add more fat to my diet, since it has over twice as many cals as carbs & protein I’d rather go with the other two.

Different things work for different people.  Just as some people do well on low carb due to things like insulin resistance, there are those who end up not doing well with a fatty diet (even "good" fats) because of things like liver problems.  Lower fat diets have been very successful for dieters in the past (including the majority on the National Weight Loss Registrty) and tend to work fine especially when the fat is *not* replaced by sugar like many "fat-free" products are. Personally if I go over a certain amount of fat over the course of a few days I will then end up puking my guts out for days to follow.  Fat is also a binge trigger for me and studies of binge eaters have shown that a typical binge is much higher in fat than any other macronutrient, including carbs. I try to keep my fat intake to 20-25% of my total calories unless I’m having an episode with my liver and then I have to shoot for 10% or less. YMMV Jenn

Response:

Yet low fatting works for a percentage of thepopulation. with shooting hunger and deprivation. I lost 50lbs and wasn’t hungry at all and I still had caloric room for not exactly healthy food like In N Out. I felt a weird "10% distress" signal a lot, but that was probably because I was losing at an agressive 2lbs/week (~1%/mass/week).

Low fat does work for me, I have tried low carb a few times but my body doesn’t like it at all, I end up with very low energy & feeling like I’m catching the flu.. With a good supply of carbs from fruit & veg, cereal & fiber crackers I can go quite low on the calories & still feel great, most of the time without hunger. I do eat smoked salmon once or twice a week for its fish oil & use the odd teaspon of olive oil here’n'there but I don’t see the reason to add more fat to my diet, since it has over twice as many cals as carbs & protein I’d rather go with the other two.

Response:

Yet low fatting works for a percentage of thepopulation.

with shooting hunger and deprivation. I lost 50lbs and wasn’t hungry at all and I still had caloric room for not exactly healthy food like In N Out. I felt a weird "10% distress" signal a lot, but that was probably because I was losing at an agressive 2lbs/week (~1%/mass/week).

Response:

Here’s the key: Glucagon level determines the rate of fat withdrawal.  More dietary fat, indirectly more glucagon, more fat withdrawn, higher resting metabolism. This makes loads of physiologic sense. It’s counterintuitive, but I believe it is necessary to eat fat to lose fat, like you say

It is quite counterinituitive but it does work. There are intuitive parts – Overeat and the mechanism is overwhelmed.  Undereat enough and eventually you break through any starvation modes. until the body gets within 10lbs of its excess fat reserves.

The mechanism itself continues to work, it’s just that the numbers change as you lose and eventually you start hitting limits.  Atkins CCLL determines your minimum carb intake to resist thyroid/leptin cycle starvation defenses.  Protein intake can’t fall below some level without triggering a similar defense.  But as you get less stored fat, your total caloric needs go down. Those minimums start to get near what you actually eat and the place to cut starts being fat. Something about lean times and famine making the body value its fat deposits more than muscle.

Correct.  Burn off the tissue that burns the most energy and stores the least first.  Burn off the tissue burns the least energy and stores the most last.  It is SO easy to ignore this and attempt to lose fast enough that your body is canabalizing lean.  Sometimes it seems like every newbie out there takes losing lean as their goal without thinking this through. Plant starches are the last thing to go in a famine, so carbing up on a low-fat diet regimen basically simulates a famine for the body.

Yet low fatting works for a percentage of thepopulation.

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Thanks, Donna! I felt so lame being unable to reach that goal no matter what I did at the time — and sometimes that feeling can linger on till now, where I am hovering above goal weight and can’t seem to get there … but now I have a better handle on things and can see the goal as within reach now.

There was a time when I flirted with 250 and between missinformation from the scientific community and a thyroid that finally died, I gave up.  That’s been over 15 years ago.  I would excercise 2-4 hours 5-6 days a week, kept my calories below 2000 (same as now) and still my weight crept up.  It’s one of the reason’s I think Complex Carbs are really bad for me. I was afraid that 300 would be the same wall, but (except for a 6 month plateau) it came and went.  I’m now focusing on 275, but really think that 250 is my next big milestone to cross.  I’ve got a much better frame of mind and attitude this go round, thankfully.  Also, I have a wonderfully supportive DH that is a tremendous help, and can’t possibly be bragged on enough.  I also have a wonderful DS that is 4.5 yo, who just by being around can give me great strength (and sometimes a great challenge…teehee). Donna K. 398.8/287.4/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

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I never thought I would actually make it below 200. It took 22 years–eek! But you made it!!!!  That’s all that matters.  :)

Thanks, Donna! I felt so lame being unable to reach that goal no matter what I did at the time — and sometimes that feeling can linger on till now, where I am hovering above goal weight and can’t seem to get there … but now I have a better handle on things and can see the goal as within reach now. Response regarding FitDay software I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are. Price is great.  I really have gotten to like the online version, so I’d probably like the real version, too.  Just have to scrape together $20 bucks, then I’ll buy it.

I think you will enjoy it! Mary

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According to Fitday, I average 23% fat. I try to avoid fat most of the time but I think it would be difficult to go as low as 10%, you probably have to study the labels of everything very carefully to achieve such low levels.

It’s a very bland diet with very few food choices (mostly carbs) that fortunately I’ve only had to do a few times in my life.  Nowadays there are more options with protein shakes and meal replacements that work well to provide sufficient nearly fat free nutrition for the extreme cases of need. Jenn

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There you are! So glad you are doing well — hope that snow melts soon! Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are. Mary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are. Mary

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Here’s the key: Glucagon level determines the rate of fat withdrawal.  More dietary fat, indirectly more glucagon, more fat withdrawn, higher resting metabolism.

This makes loads of physiologic sense. It’s counterintuitive, but I believe it is necessary to eat fat to lose fat, like you say until the body gets within 10lbs of its excess fat reserves. Something about lean times and famine making the body value its fat deposits more than muscle. Plant starches are the last thing to go in a famine, so carbing up on a low-fat diet regimen basically simulates a famine for the body.   I’m not a big ketosis fan but 30-40-30 seems about right.

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Question:

FYI, the US Dept. of Agriculture’s Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion page is here: http://www.usda.gov/cnpp/ It contains additional links, including one to the just-released Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 2005 (it’s a 4 meg pdf file, available from here: http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2005/document/pdf/DGA2005.pd f ).

Gary G, Thanks for the new 2005 .pdf and the link. You just caused me over an hour of URL surfing!!! Andy — "Ladies and gentlemen, The Beatles!" – Ed Sullivan (1964)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone! Since I have to start a low-fat/cholesterol diet (resulting from my pancreatitis), I’ve been scouring the web all day for information and found one PDF that was presented in a fun manner, was pretty easy to understand and answered a LOT of questions I have. It is dated 2000 though. Here’s the link to the PDF file: http://www.usda.gov/cnpp/DietGd.pdf Any comments? All the best, Andy P.S. I used to LOVE the foodTV channel. :[

Nice link.  Thanks. FYI, the US Dept. of Agriculture’s Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion page is here: http://www.usda.gov/cnpp/ It contains additional links, including one to the just-released Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 2005 (it’s a 4 meg pdf file, available from here: http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2005/document/pdf/DGA2005.pdf ). — GG http://www.WeightWare.com Your Weight and Health Diary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone! Since I have to start a low-fat/cholesterol diet (resulting from my pancreatitis), I’ve been scouring the web all day for information and found one PDF that was presented in a fun manner, was pretty easy to understand and answered a LOT of questions I have. It is dated 2000 though. Here’s the link to the PDF file: http://www.usda.gov/cnpp/DietGd.pdf Any comments? All the best, Andy P.S. I used to LOVE the foodTV channel. :[

The food guide is based on the pyramid which many people think is flawed. As long as you stick to mainly whole grains instead of refined carbs, it’s not a bad way to go for a low-fat diet. There are low-fat sources of protein which would help keep your carbs at a moderate level and may help with blood sugar issues.  Fat free cottage cheese is a favorite among many members of the group because it tastes great savory or sweet.  I also do things like add whey powder to sugar free/fat free yogurt to boost the protein content. Jenn

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Hi everyone! Since I have to start a low-fat/cholesterol diet (resulting from my pancreatitis), I’ve been scouring the web all day for information and found one PDF that was presented in a fun manner, was pretty easy to understand and answered a LOT of questions I have. It is dated 2000 though. Here’s the link to the PDF file: http://www.usda.gov/cnpp/DietGd.pdf Any comments? All the best, Andy P.S. I used to LOVE the foodTV channel. :[

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never paid much attention to how much fat/carbs/protein were in the various foods I eat. I’ve always just tried to eat a traditionally balanced and moderate diet (some of this and some of that), and that, along with regular exercise, always worked for me. However, after basically pigging out for the past year, not doing anything remotely like "exercising," and therefore growing out of most of my clothes (!!), I officially started trying to cut back on my food intake and reincorporating some exercise into my life as of this past Monday. Reading the "problems with low-fat diet" thread made me wonder about the balance in my new way of eating, so I plugged my foods and drinks into the Fitday site and have been shocked to see the amounts of carbs and proteins in various foods. In particular, I was dismayed to find how low in protein but high in carbs nuts and legumes are. What’s a good amount of calories to try to take in for a small woman who is nursing (but not very often — a few times a day, though baby is about 25 pounds by now) and fast-walking about 2.5 miles per day? I probably weigh about 130 but "should" weigh about 110. Yesterday, I apparently took in 1886 calories, which broke down as 42% fat, 25% carbs, and 33% protein. Today, by the end of the evening, I will have eaten/drank 1269 cals, with 37% fats, 38% carbs, 20% protein, and 6% alcohol. How bad or good do those days sound in light of today’s conventional diet wisdom? And does anyone have any suggestions for good low-cal protein sources other than traditional meats? (I do eat meat, but would like ideas for little things I might eat during the day  that would add protein to my diet.)  Thanks!

If you’re nursing, the first thing you should do is talk to your obstetrician because you don’t want to do anything that will affect your baby’s nutrition.

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How bad or good do those days sound in light of today’s conventional diet wisdom?

I don’t think there is much wisdom left in diets. :p But the values seem rather standard, I mean, like what many people eat when left on their own. Since you’re going moderate-high fats, just watch for the quality of the fats you’re eating (avoiding trans fats mainly), and that should be ok. Your ability to follow the diet or not should be your main guideline. You seem to be eating enough proteins : 20% of 1269 = 254 – around 63g of proteins. Given your weight, that’s covering your needs (1g per kg). And does anyone have any suggestions for good low-cal protein sources other than traditional meats? (I do eat meat, but would like ideas for little things I might eat during the day  that would add protein to my diet.)

Fish Eggs [also fats] Soya : tofu, milk.. [also carbs and fats] Cottage cheese You don’t need that much proteins, especially since you’re pretty light.

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I have never paid much attention to how much fat/carbs/protein were in the various foods I eat. I’ve always just tried to eat a traditionally balanced and moderate diet (some of this and some of that), and that, along with regular exercise, always worked for me. However, after basically pigging out for the past year, not doing anything remotely like "exercising," and therefore growing out of most of my clothes (!!), I officially started trying to cut back on my food intake and reincorporating some exercise into my life as of this past Monday. Reading the "problems with low-fat diet" thread made me wonder about the balance in my new way of eating, so I plugged my foods and drinks into the Fitday site and have been shocked to see the amounts of carbs and proteins in various foods. In particular, I was dismayed to find how low in protein but high in carbs nuts and legumes are. What’s a good amount of calories to try to take in for a small woman who is nursing (but not very often — a few times a day, though baby is about 25 pounds by now) and fast-walking about 2.5 miles per day? I probably weigh about 130 but "should" weigh about 110. Yesterday, I apparently took in 1886 calories, which broke down as 42% fat, 25% carbs, and 33% protein. Today, by the end of the evening, I will have eaten/drank 1269 cals, with 37% fats, 38% carbs, 20% protein, and 6% alcohol. How bad or good do those days sound in light of today’s conventional diet wisdom? And does anyone have any suggestions for good low-cal protein sources other than traditional meats? (I do eat meat, but would like ideas for little things I might eat during the day  that would add protein to my diet.)  Thanks!

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Question:

 I *know* that every diet ever invented, whether it is low fat, low carbohydrate, low calorie or low-anything-else says that You Must Eat Breakfast. However, I’m finding quite the easiest way to drop my calorie intake is to not eat breakfast.  This morning I frankly forgot!  I found I was on my way to the supermarket before I remembered I hadn’t eaten anything and, by the time I came home again, it was too late, and nearly lunch-time, or at least nearly time to make a batch of ABC soup (Alliums, broccoli and cabbage) (for recipe, see http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/Recipes/ABC.html) On Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday mornings, we are at the ice rink by 7.00 or shortly thereafter; I simply can’t eat that early, but usually eat a banana before I get on the ice.  And, increasingly, I’m finding that this lasts me all morning.  Can anybody see any reason why this won’t do? The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme.  But why pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better? —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I *know* that every diet ever invented, whether it is low fat, low carbohydrate, low calorie or low-anything-else says that You Must Eat Breakfast. However, I’m finding quite the easiest way to drop my calorie intake is to not eat breakfast.  This morning I frankly forgot!  I found I was on my way to the supermarket before I remembered I hadn’t eaten anything and, by the time I came home again, it was too late, and nearly lunch-time, or at least nearly time to make a batch of ABC soup (Alliums, broccoli and cabbage) (for recipe, see http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/Recipes/ABC.html) On Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday mornings, we are at the ice rink by 7.00 or shortly thereafter; I simply can’t eat that early, but usually eat a banana before I get on the ice.  And, increasingly, I’m finding that this lasts me all morning.  Can anybody see any reason why this won’t do? The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme.  But why pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better? —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

Your soup recipe sounds good.  I might have to give it a try.  Do you know if it can be frozen? Here’s an article on carb-loading.  It’s done mainly for endurance events. I think most of us would be better sticking to the good carbs in our diets. I do a lot of bike riding and I always eat the same breakfast before a ride as I do on regular days.  I stick with the oatmeal, protein powder and ground flax seed.  I do carry an energy bar with me just in case I need it. http://www.the-athletes-edge.com/cgi-local/whaz_happening.cgi If the banana satisfies you I see no reason to eat additional food.  It does help to keep the metabolism working correctly when you spread the food intake out over the day.  I find I need to be up for a couple hours before I eat breakfast.  I’m one of those people who has to have a cup of coffee first<g Beverly

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There is whole wheat pasta, I’ve gotten to like it.  But yes you should vary it with brown rice.  A varied diet is crucial to nutrition, now that we know from clinical studies that the anti-oxidants and fiber in supplements don’t work as well as eating the right food.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I *know* that every diet ever invented, whether it is low fat, low carbohydrate, low calorie or low-anything-else says that You Must Eat Breakfast. However, I’m finding quite the easiest way to drop my calorie intake is to not eat breakfast.  This morning I frankly forgot!  I found I was on my way to the supermarket before I remembered I hadn’t eaten anything and, by the time I came home again, it was too late, and nearly lunch-time, or at least nearly time to make a batch of ABC soup (Alliums, broccoli and cabbage) (for recipe, see http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/Recipes/ABC.html) On Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday mornings, we are at the ice rink by 7.00 or shortly thereafter; I simply can’t eat that early, but usually eat a banana before I get on the ice.  And, increasingly, I’m finding that this lasts me all morning.  Can anybody see any reason why this won’t do? The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme.  But why pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better? —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 at 15:14:03, Ignoramus19431 try this link http://www.glycemicindex.com/ Pasta: 45 Brown Rice: 66

Thanks. —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 at 13:42:29, Ignoramus19431

I had asked: The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme. But why pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better? Are you an athlete? Are you performing strenuous exercise? (say, running 10 miles in the morning to keep in shape and get in the mood for the day full of real exercise) If not, then you should not eat like one.

I fail to see what this has to do with the question I asked.  I asked whether pasta was a high-glycemic food, which is what I had thought it was.  If you don’t know the answer, please don’t go off into some sort of rant.  FYI I am an ice-skater, and practice at least 4 days/week for up to 3 hours at a time; at 51, that is probably enough right now. —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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Your soup recipe sounds good.  I might have to give it a try.  Do you know if it can be frozen?

I don’t see why not!  I have never tried, but I expect it could be. —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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I *know* that every diet ever invented, whether it is low fat, low carbohydrate, low calorie or low-anything-else says that You Must Eat Breakfast. However, I’m finding quite the easiest way to drop my calorie intake is to not eat breakfast.

Over a period of weeks, most people who do eat breakfast do better on their portions for the rest of the day.  If you haven’t tried it for over a month, you don’t know if you could be better by having breakfast. But what works for most people doesn’t mean it’s mandatory for everyone.  If you’re doing fine without breakfast, so what about how the averages are. The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme.  But why pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better?

Are YOU a top athlete?  I’m not!  Why should I care in the least about eating programs for top athletes?  I know right now they don’t apply to me in the least.  I couldn’t care less why some heavy competitive athlete going out for a professional sports team is supposed to eat pasta. Sure, for me brown rice would work better than pasta.  Likely that’s true for you too.  Unless you compete it’s unlikely eating programs for top athletes are of any use to you.

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I’ve never found the concept of GI index to have any weight-loss relevance for me.  Others’ experience may differ. Are you saying that GI is not a good measurement, or that for you, it does not matter if you eat 100 calories from sugar vs, say, 100 calories from fat, as far as your satiety is concerned?

It doesn’t seem to have any significance from any perspective for me. But it isn’t just about fat vs. sugar; there are more weird differences — like cherries are really low and watermelon really high, and lima beans are way lower than fava beans, and rice bran is way lower than oat bran.  I certainly don’t experience any difference in satiety from eating one of these than the other.  For that matter, I’ve never noticed a difference in satiety between the same number of calories from sugar as from fat.  If anything, I’d probably feel more satieted eating 170 calories worth of cereal or potato than 170 calories worth of peanuts, due to the greater bulk.   But I think the more significant argument made in favor of eating low GI foods is that because they presumably raise blood sugar much less than the higher GI foods, avoiding carb cravings a few hours later. As I’ve said before, I’ve just never noticed this side effect.  (As an example, both days this weekend I ate far too many sweets at lunch. And both days I didn’t get hungry again for anything until 8-9 hours later.  And then it definitely was not for sweets or other carbs.) Some athletes I know limit carb intake (though most talk about "healthy" vs. "unhealthy" carbs, not specifically about GI index). Others eat carbs freely.  Almost all eat carbs before a competitive event.  (One reason for this, apart from a quicker energy hit, is that digesting carbs is easier on most people’s stomachs than digesting fats or proteins.)  I only worry about carb content to the extent that I want to get some reasonable balance of nutrients and a somewhat greater than average level of protein, so need to spend my calories accordingly. BTW, just last night I read the new issue of Hers Magazine (from Muscle & Fitness, I believe).  The whole issue was about how women Olympians train and eat — fascinating stuff.  There was a particularly interesting article about timing one’s meals to fit with one’s activities. Olympians who compete in aerobic or anaerobic sports?

A mix.  Offhand, the ones I remember reading about competed in swimming (short and long distance), running (from sprint to marathon), triathlon, gymnastics, wrestling (I didn’t know women did this), weighlifting, cycling, water polo, synchronized swim, softball, and pole vault.  Some amazing stuff — the marathoner runs 10-24 miles in the morning, then another 4-6 before dinner.  She also lifts weights 3 days a week. Chris 262/143/ (145-150)

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The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme. But why pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better? Are you an athlete? Are you performing strenuous exercise? (say, running 10 miles in the morning to keep in shape and get in the mood for the day full of real exercise)

I’ve never found the concept of GI index to have any weight-loss relevance for me.  Others’ experience may differ. BTW, just last night I read the new issue of Hers Magazine (from Muscle & Fitness, I believe).  The whole issue was about how women Olympians train and eat — fascinating stuff.  There was a particularly interesting article about timing one’s meals to fit with one’s activities. Chris

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On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 at 12:45:18, Ignoramus25231 If you are overweight and pasta makes you hungry and you find yourself overeating after a few hours passes after your pasta meal, then you probably need to reassess your pasta eating.

Why would eating pasta make one hungry?  I find that eating a healthy, balanced amount of carbohydrate with my meal, whether this be pasta, rice, potatoes or bread, helps me feel far less hungry and more satisfied. A good sign of this would be trying to lose weight and being unable to. If you find yourself in this position, then, junking pasta would be a good option.

No, because what would one then have left to eat?  Just the tomato sauce…. I don’t think I could cope with that!  I really *would* feel hungry, then! There is not a great deal of difference between how "simple carbohydrates" and "complex carbohydrates" are metabolized.

No, but you get "more bang for your buck" with simple carbohydrates – *all* sugar does is provide energy, so, while all carbohydrates are 4 Kc per gramme, you get more pure carbohydrate in a teaspoon of sugar than you do in a slice of bread. —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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dr. atkins use to encourage folks to ONLY eat when hungry. so when i am hungry, i eat. (usually that is NOT at the typical breakfast time) rosie — http://www.plur.net/thisland.html

: I *know* that every diet ever invented, whether it is low fat, low : carbohydrate, low calorie or low-anything-else says that You Must Eat : Breakfast. : : However, I’m finding quite the easiest way to drop my calorie intake is : to not eat breakfast.  This morning I frankly forgot!  I found I was on : my way to the supermarket before I remembered I hadn’t eaten anything : and, by the time I came home again, it was too late, and nearly : lunch-time, or at least nearly time to make a batch of ABC soup : (Alliums, broccoli and cabbage) (for recipe, see : http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/Recipes/ABC.html) : : On Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday mornings, we are at the ice rink by : 7.00 or shortly thereafter; I simply can’t eat that early, but usually : eat a banana before I get on the ice.  And, increasingly, I’m finding : that this lasts me all morning.  Can anybody see any reason why this : won’t do? : : The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat : salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme. But why : pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For : You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better? : — : http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html : Website updated 18 July 2004

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If you are slim, very active, and eat servings of pasta here and there, all the power to you. If you are overweight and pasta makes you hungry and you find yourself overeating after a few hours passes after your pasta meal, then you probably need to reassess your pasta eating. A good sign of this would be trying to lose weight and being unable to. If you find yourself in this position, then, junking pasta would be a good option. There is not a great deal of difference between how "simple carbohydrates" and "complex carbohydrates" are metabolized.

In my previous life, pasta was something I ate *lots* of several times every week.  That had to stop when I wanted to lose weight.  BUT I didn’t want to completely give up a food I really loved all my life. So instead of a huge bowl (or two!)with a heavy meat sauce, I measure out a cup and then pile on some roasted zucchini and/or eggplant, some marinara and find it to be totally satisfying.  I probably have this once every 3 weeks or so.  It’s part of the program I’ve worked out for myself and seems to work out fine. I can eat anything I want – I just can’t have it all *today*. — Walking (or riding!) on . . . Laurie in Maine 207/110  60 inches of attitude! Start: 2/02  Maintained since 2/03

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On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 at 13:36:48, Ignoramus25231 A regular slice of white bread contains 13 grams of carbs. A teaspoon of sugar contains 4 grams of carbs.

Yes, but the bread contains other nutrients, the sugar doesn’t. —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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If you are overweight and pasta makes you hungry and you find yourself overeating after a few hours passes after your pasta meal, then you probably need to reassess your pasta eating. Why would eating pasta make one hungry?

Addictive binge triggers are discovered by following the Atkins process, also by paleolithic eating and isolation systems. Eating pasta *does* make some people ravenously hungry and those people need to avoid it completely. I find that eating a healthy, balanced amount of carbohydrate with my meal, whether this be pasta, rice, potatoes or bread, helps me feel far less hungry and more satisfied.

Good for you but don’t assume it works that way for everyone. There are folks who binge if they eat a bite of potato or whatever. If you find yourself in this position, then, junking pasta would be a good option. No, because what would one then have left to eat?  Just the tomato sauce…. I don’t think I could cope with that!

Huh?  Junk the pasta and you’re left with, uhm, steak, brocolli, lobster, asparugus and on and on and on.  There are tons of non-pasta foods in the world. There is not a great deal of difference between how "simple carbohydrates" and "complex carbohydrates" are metabolized. No, but you get "more bang for your buck" with simple carbohydrates – *all* sugar does is provide energy, so, while all carbohydrates are 4 Kc per gramme, you get more pure carbohydrate in a teaspoon of sugar than you do in a slice of bread.

Many also get more insulin reaction as well.

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The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme.  But why pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better? Are YOU a top athlete?  I’m not!  Why should I care in the least about eating programs for top athletes? I’m not a top athlete (although I am a triple international gold medallist in my sport)

If you have those medals then I don’t get why you deny you’re a top althete in that sport.  Have you retired from competition numerous years ago?  If so then the medals are cool history not current status. but the reason why I care is that athletes, of all people, eat healthily.

*For their current situtation* *based on their current knowledge*. Neither automatically translates to someone interested in losing weight. Racing cars can use a mixture of ethanol and ethyl nitrate.  What would happen if you put fuel like that in your car for your commute to work?  It may well blow up in your driveway!  *Different current situtation*. I would have thought a diet based on chicken or fish, fresh vegetables and pasta (or, perhaps, rice) would be healthy by anybody’s standards, no?

No.  I was with you all the way up to your mention of pasta. Also note that vegans wouldn’t hav emade it that far into your statement.  You’re generalizing. I know right now they don’t apply to me in the least.  I couldn’t care less why some heavy competitive athlete going out for a professional sports team is supposed to eat pasta. I was brought up to believe that a healthy diet contained healthy amounts of complex carbohydrates; obviously sugar, being a simple carbohydrate is out, and modern thinking, I know, looks at the GI index of all carbohydrate foods.

I was raised to think that too.  Doesn’t mean it was actually correct.  George Washington was raised that bleeding was good for the sick and look at what good it did for him.  Christopher Columbus was raised that the Earth is flat but he got over it. Sure, for me brown rice would work better than pasta.  Likely that’s true for you too.  Unless you compete it’s unlikely eating programs for top athletes are of any use to you. Why would a healthy eating programme *not* be of use to me, or anybody else?

Being healthy for someone else in a different situtation doesn’t mean it’s good for you in your current situation. Take your current situation, and use that as a basis.  Don’t just look at any random plan and ignore what situation it’s intended for and assume it’s for you.  Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t.

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On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 at 00:34:44, Ignoramus31782 I also eat grains and carbs, at least grains until very recently. I am now experimenting with eating no grains at all, and it turns out that I am much less hungry this way. I used to eat a slice of bread in the morning, I subtracted it a week ago, and it made me a little less hungry. Will experiment some more, to ascertain that this is reliably true and not just a fluke.

I believe some people do extremely well after cutting out bread and pasta for the simple reason that they had an unsuspected gluten or wheat intolerance, and cutting it out of their diet made them feel very much better and also stopped them bloating – a friend of my mother’s, who tried the Atkins diet to lose weight, discovered that way that she had a gluten intolerance and now feels 100% better (plus, she has lost weight, I understand!).  However, not everybody is gluten- or wheat-intolerant! —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme. But why pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better? Are you an athlete? Are you performing strenuous exercise? (say, running 10 miles in the morning to keep in shape and get in the mood for the day full of real exercise) I’ve never found the concept of GI index to have any weight-loss relevance for me.  Others’ experience may differ. Are you saying that GI is not a good measurement, or that for you, it does not matter if you eat 100 calories from sugar vs, say, 100 calories from fat, as far as your satiety is concerned?

Yup.  Even the "discoverers" of GI say that it’s not a good measure!  A banana measures differently depending on ripes, individual consuming it, etc.  Pasta measures differently depending on cooking time, type of flour, individual consuming it, and so on. — jmk in NC

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The other question is this: we are forever hearing that top athletes eat salad, pasta, chicken and fish, and permutations on that theme.  But why pasta?  I thought it was supposed to have a high GI index, so Bad For You.  Wouldn’t brown rice be better? Are YOU a top athlete?  I’m not!  Why should I care in the least about eating programs for top athletes?

I’m not a top athlete (although I am a triple international gold medallist in my sport), but the reason why I care is that athletes, of all people, eat healthily.  I would have thought a diet based on chicken or fish, fresh vegetables and pasta (or, perhaps, rice) would be healthy by anybody’s standards, no? I know right now they don’t apply to me in the least.  I couldn’t care less why some heavy competitive athlete going out for a professional sports team is supposed to eat pasta.

I was brought up to believe that a healthy diet contained healthy amounts of complex carbohydrates; obviously sugar, being a simple carbohydrate is out, and modern thinking, I know, looks at the GI index of all carbohydrate foods. Sure, for me brown rice would work better than pasta.  Likely that’s true for you too.  Unless you compete it’s unlikely eating programs for top athletes are of any use to you.

Why would a healthy eating programme *not* be of use to me, or anybody else? —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 at 15:30:28, Ignoramus19431 It also depends on the person. Some people are so healthy that regular carb loading would be nothing for them. They’d eat a big plate of pasta and not be hungry for the rest of th day. Some people are not so lucky and would experience a rise in blood glucose and then a fall and some hunger due to that. i

Yes, but we are not talking about "carb loading" here; we’re talking about a helping of pasta as part of a balanced main meal! —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 262/143/ (145-150) I also eat grains and carbs, at least grains until very recently. I am now experimenting with eating no grains at all, and it turns out that I am much less hungry this way. I used to eat a slice of bread in the morning, I subtracted it a week ago, and it made me a little less hungry. Will experiment some more, to ascertain that this is reliably true and not just a fluke. i

Sounds like "Animal Farm." Amy

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Doug, while what you said makes a lot of sense, in general, Annabel seems to be a person who is doing okay eating those grains and carbs, according to some of her self descriptions.

Doing well trumps doing poorly.  But does it trump also truth? Indeed; thank you.  I’m afraid Doug comes across as extraordinarily aggressive, so I don’t plan to respond to his comments.

Pick a false reason for having a stance, and I am aggressive.  Pick a true reason, and I am supportive. Good reason – <I tried low fat first and it worked for me, so I never bothered to learn about low carb.  Lacking the knowledge I resist making ludicrous statements about eliminating entire food groups and such that at a glance are bound to be inaccurate. Bad reason – <I made up a bunch of false statements about low carb or I accepted a bunch of false statements without checking, so I never considered low carb.  Therefore I only tried low fat.  But since low fat worked for me I spout the false statements like they are true. It’s good that you’re doing well, but that doesn’t allow you to make up false statements about plans you don’t know about. A bit on the mechanism of how low fat works without cutting calories below reasonable amounts, to show that I understand both low carbing and low fatting and my bias is against false statements per se not against low fat in general: The body consumes a certain minimum amount of fat per day no matter the amount that is eaten.  It’s consumed for making new cells, repairing old cells, burned as fuel, and probably other uses.  Various dietary tricks can cause the amount burned to be higher (aerobic exercise to actively burn it, anaerobic exercise to indirectly increase the long term consumption, ketosis to increase the resting burn rate, etc), but nothing can reduce the minimum. Eat less fat than the minimum, and the body must either take it from stored fat or convert it from dietary protein and carbs.  But the minimum fat consumed is in polyunsaturated fats to some extent and the body can only produce saturated fats from protein and carb energy.  The result is a gradual forced reduction in stored fat, and sure enough reduction in stored fat is the goal of nearly all dieters.  No matter how much carbs you eat, it doesn’t overcome this loophole. All you need to do is avoid eating so much carbs that the amount converted to saturated fat is less than the amount withdrawn and the conversion process is very ineffecient.  All that’s needed to ensure net loss of stored fat is to forbid overeating total calories.  Sure enough all popular low fat programs do exactly that as do all popular low carb programs and all other popular weight loss programs. So how do you optimize the results of a low fat plan?  By keeping your intake of polyunsaturates the majority of your fat intake rather than saturates.  Since the minimum taken from storage is polyunsaturates that are drawn from reserves to build cells, feed that portion and starve the saturates. Since the majority of stored fat that folks want to reduce is saturates, tune your intake to have the lost fat be the satures.  Incidentally, cravings for fat aren’t specific to type.  If you reduce your fat intake of polyunsaturates you will deplete your reserves and trigger cravings while if you deplete your store of saturates the body can make new saturates so it doesn’t trigger as much cravings. This is why the popular press condemns saturated fat.  The assumption is that low fat is the one and only why to lose (false) combined with the assumption that once low fatting reducing saturates but not polyunsaturates triggers loss of stored fat not cell building reserves (true). Of course if you dig into the mechanism deeper and deeper there is a lot more to learn.  Two classes of essential fatty acids, the body’s ability to burn monounsaturates but not to store them, feedback loops of various hormones that control metabolism that cause this low fat metabolic loophole, etc.

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On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 at 14:15:56, Ignoramus31782 Doug, while what you said makes a lot of sense, in general, Annabel seems to be a person who is doing okay eating those grains and carbs, according to some of her self descriptions. Indeed; thank you.  I’m afraid Doug comes across as extraordinarily aggressive, so I don’t plan to respond to his comments.  Anyway, I’ve no time now….

I’ve also done just fine eating grains and carbs — among other things, of course.  I try to make selections with good nutritional bang for the buck, but don’t restrict any types of foods. Chris 262/143/ (145-150)

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On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 at 14:15:56, Ignoramus31782 Doug, while what you said makes a lot of sense, in general, Annabel seems to be a person who is doing okay eating those grains and carbs, according to some of her self descriptions.

Indeed; thank you.  I’m afraid Doug comes across as extraordinarily aggressive, so I don’t plan to respond to his comments.  Anyway, I’ve no time now…. —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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*For their current situtation* *based on their current knowledge*. Neither automatically translates to someone interested in losing weight. As far as I am aware, current thinking still recommends a way of eating based on complex carbohydrates, fruit and vegetables, with protein from low-fat sources, a little mono-unsaturated fat, and as little saturated fat, sugar and alcohol as one could manage.  Unless, of course, one follows a faddy diet that cuts out an entire food group.

1) Name a faddy diet that cuts out an entire food group.  No, a real actual one not your distorted image of it.  (Hint, this is a trick question since there are none.  Hint, if you can think of one you don’t have the slightest notion of what the plan actually is in reality). 2) Who made up the concept of food groups in the first place and why is it considered valid anyways?  There are no ill effects whatsoever from avoiding certain types of food.  Eat no grain for your entire life and it has no impact on your health, societies in the Arctic icecap for example.  Eat no diary for your entire life after being weaned and it has no impact on your health.  The key to healthy food is variety not a catalog. I was brought up to believe that a healthy diet contained healthy amounts of complex carbohydrates; obviously sugar, being a simple carbohydrate is out, and modern thinking, I know, looks at the GI index of all carbohydrate foods. I was raised to think that too.  Doesn’t mean it was actually correct. I have yet to have it proved to my satisfaction that cutting out an entire food group is a healthy way to eat.

There are no actual diets that do that, so your point is lost in irrelevancy. Even a low fat diet contains a little fat, particularly mono-unsaturates.

Specific fatty acids are essential so no plan that targets zero fat works.  A program that pushes zero fat would inevitably lead those who follow it to poor health.  Thus there are no such programs on the market.  Any that come out fail and disspear from the market place. The fatty acids that are essential are neither monounsaturates nor saturates.  The essential ones are Omega-3 and Oemga-9 polyunsaturates.  Since the body can convert among types of each, there aren’t any exact types that are essential just the two classes. Nut oils have plenty of the two essential types.  That’s why nuts are such healthy foods.  As long as you don’t go out of control eating too many.  A handfull.

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I’m not a top athlete (although I am a triple international gold medallist in my sport) If you have those medals then I don’t get why you deny you’re a top althete in that sport.  Have you retired from competition numerous years ago?  If so then the medals are cool history not current status.

No, but they are against my peers in age and ability, not against the objective best. but the reason why I care is that athletes, of all people, eat healthily. *For their current situtation* *based on their current knowledge*. Neither automatically translates to someone interested in losing weight.

As far as I am aware, current thinking still recommends a way of eating based on complex carbohydrates, fruit and vegetables, with protein from low-fat sources, a little mono-unsaturated fat, and as little saturated fat, sugar and alcohol as one could manage.  Unless, of course, one follows a faddy diet that cuts out an entire food group. I would have thought a diet based on chicken or fish, fresh vegetables and pasta (or, perhaps, rice) would be healthy by anybody’s standards, no? No.  I was with you all the way up to your mention of pasta. Also note that vegans wouldn’t hav emade it that far into your statement.  You’re generalizing.

Someone who is vegetarian or vegan would not eat chicken or fish, certainly, but it was you, I think, who mentioned steak and lobster in another post – both foods that I would only eat occasionally, if at all, because of the saturated fat content, to say nothing of the price! I was brought up to believe that a healthy diet contained healthy amounts of complex carbohydrates; obviously sugar, being a simple carbohydrate is out, and modern thinking, I know, looks at the GI index of all carbohydrate foods. I was raised to think that too.  Doesn’t mean it was actually correct.

I have yet to have it proved to my satisfaction that cutting out an entire food group is a healthy way to eat.  Even a low fat diet contains a little fat, particularly mono-unsaturates. —                                 http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 18 July 2004

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Question:

Hi, I’m new here today and looking for help/advice. My husband is a Type 2 diabetic (Metformin & Gliclizide) and also has a compulsive eating disorder and regularly has blood sugar levels of between 15 & 25. His levels have been very high this past week and he is behaving very strangely – depressed, mood swings, sleepiing most of time. My problem is that because his diabetes is so uncontrolled and i have mnever been given any info  to understand how the diabetes/medicatio works I do not know what is normal and what signs i should look out for as a crisis point or what could happen. Can anyone explain/advise as at moment I am not sure if he is having a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown and he has made me promise not to contact medical professionals as he doesn’t want to see anyone. Another concern is why when my husband has blood tests does he have to keep assuring them that he never drinks alcohol (maybe 4 tins a year at Xmas) but they have a reading oof 60 circled which makes them ask about alcohol? Any help/advice grateflly received. Jennie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I’m new here today and looking for help/advice. My husband is a Type 2 diabetic (Metformin & Gliclizide) and also has a compulsive eating disorder and regularly has blood sugar levels of between 15 & 25. His levels have been very high this past week and he is behaving very strangely – depressed, mood swings, sleepiing most of time. My problem is that because his diabetes is so uncontrolled and i have mnever been given any info  to understand how the diabetes/medicatio works I do not know what is normal and what signs i should look out for as a crisis point or what could happen. Can anyone explain/advise as at moment I am not sure if he is having a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown and he has made me promise not to contact medical professionals as he doesn’t want to see anyone. Another concern is why when my husband has blood tests does he have to keep assuring them that he never drinks alcohol (maybe 4 tins a year at Xmas) but they have a reading oof 60 circled which makes them ask about alcohol? Any help/advice grateflly received. Jennie

Hi Jennie Firstly, I am sorry, but although we may help a little to let you understand what is happening, nothing much will change until he wants it to. Of course, we both know he should see the doctor. Immediately. The hardest part will not be what should he do, but motivating him to do it. And I’m afraid, from a male viewpoint, the one certain way NOT to get him to do it is to nag. The mood symptoms you describe could be caused by other things, but they are unsurprising to me from my own early history with this disease. To find out some specifics on what he should be eating, what numbers are safe, and how he could achieve them, read Jennifer’s advice at: http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/ . I preface the next bit by reminding you I have no medical qualifications. If you are the cook, there are some ways you can help. Cut as much starch from his diet as possible. Minimise all the white starches – flour products (bread, rolls, bagels, pastries, batters etc), potatoes (chips, mash, baked, boiled etc), corn products, rice, processed breakfast cereals. Also minimise all fruits except berries and delete all fruit juices. If he has an eating disorder, which I would suspect is exacerbated or even caused by the hunger created from high carbs and extreme BGs, then feed him salads, greens, leafy veges like cabbage to replace the bulk lost by deleting the starches. For snacks, prepare low carb dips (plenty of recipes on the net) and use vege strips/carrots/asparagus etc instead of crackers for dipping. There are lots of other ideas, email me direct if you want a longer more detailed version. Alternative snacks can be nuts or cheese (in small quantities). So, the only advice I can give, if he won’t see the medics, is to change his diet by testing to see what is hurting him as Jennifer describes. But, if he won’t, all you can do is try to change it gradually in your menus. Better than nothing, but it’s shooting blind without testing to see the results. Good Luck, Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg=92kg, No diabetes meds. Diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

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Hello Hi, I’m new here today and looking for help/advice. My husband is a Type 2 diabetic (Metformin & Gliclizide) and also has a compulsive eating disorder and regularly has blood sugar levels of between 15 & 25.

you have my sympathies. What is the eating disorder? His levels have been very high this past week and he is behaving very strangely – depressed, mood swings, sleepiing most of time. My problem is that because his diabetes is so uncontrolled and i have mnever been given any info  to understand how the diabetes/medicatio works I do not know what is normal and what signs i should look out for as a crisis point or what could happen. Can anyone explain/advise as at moment I am not sure if he is having a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown and he has made me promise not to contact medical professionals as he doesn’t want to see anyone.

The problem with metabolic derangement/very high glucose levels is that it, in turn, produces derangement in blood chemistry, which affects just about everything… including mood, rationality and ability to think clearly and logically. Prior to diagnosis, I felt like I was really losing it. I’d go out and have all the physical symptoms of panic, apart from the fact that I retained insight; I wasn’t mentally panicked. I shook like a leaf and soaked in sweat, sometimes wanting to retch. After diagnosis, I got the numbers under control and this problem stopped completely. There is nothing stopping you from going to your doctor, and asking as a diabetic carer, what to do in your circumstance. Because your husband is his own person, his doc almost certainly can’t discuss his particular personal health with you, because that’s confidential unless eg he is under the mental health act and you are his appointed guardian, but they should be able to advise on what you can do with regard to what to look out for and general help in caring for a diabetic with an eating disorder. If you have any say at all in what he eats, as a first step, you might want to try to cut out all starches. This is the strategy I used in normalising my sugars. Another concern is why when my husband has blood tests does he have to keep assuring them that he never drinks alcohol (maybe 4 tins a year at Xmas) but they have a reading oof 60 circled which makes them ask about alcohol?

what was the 60 of, and in what units? I have been advised by my doc that elevated liver enzymes are part of the whole t2 syndrome. How much is too much to be just down to diabetes lies with a doctor’s judgement. Good luck. — John38 : t2 since 11/03 : 6mg amaryl 1.5g metaformin  : aspirin

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Hi, I’m new here today and looking for help/advice. My husband is a Type 2 diabetic (Metformin & Gliclizide) and also has a compulsive eating disorder and regularly has blood sugar levels of between 15 & 25. Which are levels that will eventually cause internal organ deterioration and other nasty effects such as retinopathy and neuropathy, if allowed to continue.

<Good advice snipped for brevity Jennie, Pete is right. I may not have said it clearly or strongly enough.  I doubt that nagging will work, but you need to talk to him and try whatever means you can to get him to start proper treatment. I shouldn’t, and neither should you, have accepted his "won’t talk to doctors" attitude. In hindsight, when my wife (who has a phobia, literally, of doctors) wouldn’t see a doctor, I had to threaten divorce and actually leave the house before she complied for her arthritis. I didn’t like to be as blunt as that with you, but in hindsight I should have urged as strongly as Pete. Good luck PS Feel free to show him the responses you received. Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

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I’ll  only say what others have said; I ran hba1c of 11 or 12 for the last few years and i developed retinopathy, laser treatment has caught it in time …. lots of luck and 9 months of bloody hard work are what saved me. Bearing in mind my sugars were not quite as high as your husbands, he’s writing his own suicide note with numbers like that. What i needed was a sharp slap around the head to sort myself out … retinopathy did that to me and i thank god i got the message now. Have you tried downloading some pictures / articles from diabetics who have really suffered with complications and discussed them with him, or even left them lying around the house where he might come across them? My treatment was very much minor in comparison with some of the unlucky souls out there. Without knowing the dynamics of your relationship it’s hard to advise you on the best way to tell him … so i won’t try. However as you’re probably figuring out fairly quickly the message is clear and simple. What he’s got is superman disease crossed with a healthy dose of ostrich syndrome, i know this cos i had it for years. Roughly translated men think they are superhuman and that problems will go away if they ignore them for long enough. Quite common, but not healthy and in the case of diabetes quite dangerous if left for long enough. As for problems .. there’s a whole host of nasties just waiting in the wings looking for a walk on part; Eyes, Liver, Heart, Arteries, Skin problems, circulation issues, amputations of limbs / digits, and uncontrolled diabetes can make all the nice normal diseases you get  a bit worse too. It really is the silent killer and the sooner you find a way … any way to get this over to him the better. Ultimately, and this is going to appear harsh … if you worry that upsetting him may cause marital problems, consider that if he doesn’t get this sorted there may not be much of him left to be married to. As i said, it sounds harsh and please don’t take it the wrong way, but you need to find  some way of getting the message over. I can understand that this must be very hard for you to watch the man you love do this to himself, but that’s the point …. it’s him and he has to be in control and he has to want to get this sorted. No one is going to do it for him. If he won’t admit it to himself then you as his  wife are going to have to try and help him see what he probably already knows but refuses to admit to. What you might be able to do for your own benefit is give the local hospital a ring, or look for the PCT ( primary care trust  - your GP will have the number)  In your area. They have diabetes specialists who you can talk to and gain some impartial medical advice regarding diabetes and the medication. You might also be able to book a session with one of the hospital consultants to ask some questions, not about your husband per se, but general questions. In fact .. make up a name and quote your husbands recent  figures and ask them what their response would be based on that. Maybe ask if they mind you recording it onto an audio tape so that you can play it back when you get home, i don’t know …. not sure how that would work. But please … whatever you do … don’t do nothing. If anyt of us can be of further assistance then just ask. Patrick — Type 1 Diabetic on 28u of Lantus and as much novorapid as my meter tells me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new here today and looking for help/advice. My husband is a Type 2 diabetic (Metformin & Gliclizide) and also has a compulsive eating disorder and regularly has blood sugar levels of between 15 & 25. His levels have been very high this past week and he is behaving very strangely – depressed, mood swings, sleepiing most of time. My problem is that because his diabetes is so uncontrolled and i have mnever been given any info  to understand how the diabetes/medicatio works I do not know what is normal and what signs i should look out for as a crisis point or what could happen. Can anyone explain/advise as at moment I am not sure if he is having a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown and he has made me promise not to contact medical professionals as he doesn’t want to see anyone. Another concern is why when my husband has blood tests does he have to keep assuring them that he never drinks alcohol (maybe 4 tins a year at Xmas) but they have a reading oof 60 circled which makes them ask about alcohol? Any help/advice grateflly received. Jennie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new here today and looking for help/advice. My husband is a Type 2 diabetic (Metformin & Gliclizide) and also has a compulsive eating disorder and regularly has blood sugar levels of between 15 & 25. His levels have been very high this past week and he is behaving very strangely – depressed, mood swings, sleepiing most of time. My problem is that because his diabetes is so uncontrolled and i have mnever been given any info  to understand how the diabetes/medicatio works I do not know what is normal and what signs i should look out for as a crisis point or what could happen. Can anyone explain/advise as at moment I am not sure if he is having a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown and he has made me promise not to contact medical professionals as he doesn’t want to see anyone. Another concern is why when my husband has blood tests does he have to keep assuring them that he never drinks alcohol (maybe 4 tins a year at Xmas) but they have a reading oof 60 circled which makes them ask about alcohol? Any help/advice grateflly received. Jennie

I started with this ng a few weeks ago. A big plus for me was finding people who think and act exactly as I did/do. Acknowledging that I am not the only one with diabetic problems is a big step. Your husband is in denial, and will only become reasonable when he can acknowledge what he has, what it means and that he is not the only one in the world with these problems. He sounds like he does not respond to nagging/bullying, (neither do I) you must know, so I would suggest you try another tact. He will never feel alone if he gets on this ng, and we all know the problems. chin up, we are all with you cheers Bryan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new here today and looking for help/advice. My husband is a Type 2 diabetic (Metformin & Gliclizide) and also has a compulsive eating disorder and regularly has blood sugar levels of between 15 & 25. His levels have been very high this past week and he is behaving very strangely – depressed, mood swings, sleepiing most of time. My problem is that because his diabetes is so uncontrolled and i have mnever been given any info  to understand how the diabetes/medicatio works I do not know what is normal and what signs i should look out for as a crisis point or what could happen. Can anyone explain/advise as at moment I am not sure if he is having a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown and he has made me promise not to contact medical professionals as he doesn’t want to see anyone. Another concern is why when my husband has blood tests does he have to keep assuring them that he never drinks alcohol (maybe 4 tins a year at Xmas) but they have a reading oof 60 circled which makes them ask about alcohol? Any help/advice grateflly received.

You’ve already had a lot of good advice, so I will only add two thoughts. Get a book by Gretchen Becker called "The First Year: Type 2 Diabetes". Read it yourself, it will give you some understanding of what’s going on with your husband, and a lot of very good, if sometimes scary, info about t2 diabetes.  After you’ve read it, leave it somewhere that he can find it and read it.  If he does, it might scare him into behaving a bit more sensibly. Get in touch with Relate and talk to them about the situation.  You do not have to go as a couple.  This is obviously already affecting your relationship, and it will only get worse if your husband doesn’t start taking sensible control of his diabetes.  The Relate people may or may not be able to refer you to a more appropriate agency [I don't know of a diabetic equivalent of AlAnon, but maybe there ought to be one!], but they can certainly help you clarify your thinking about the situation and how to deal with it.  It helps to have someone neutral to bounce ideas and fears and anger and confusion and disress off of, so that you can come back to the situation with a better, clearer understanding. I know I said only two thoughts, but here’s a third: take care of yourself.  You won’t be much use to yourself or your husband if you worry yourself into a bad mental, physical and/or emotional state. I hope this helps a bit, and come back and let us know what happens.  We care.   All the best, Maggie — "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats." — Albert Schweitzer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new here today and looking for help/advice. My husband is a Type 2 diabetic (Metformin & Gliclizide) and also has a compulsive eating disorder and regularly has blood sugar levels of between 15 & 25. His levels have been very high this past week and he is behaving very strangely – depressed, mood swings, sleepiing most of time. My problem is that because his diabetes is so uncontrolled and i have mnever been given any info  to understand how the diabetes/medicatio works I do not know what is normal and what signs i should look out for as a crisis point or what could happen. Can anyone explain/advise as at moment I am not sure if he is having a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown and he has made me promise not to contact medical professionals as he doesn’t want to see anyone. Another concern is why when my husband has blood tests does he have to keep assuring them that he never drinks alcohol (maybe 4 tins a year at Xmas) but they have a reading oof 60 circled which makes them ask about alcohol? Any help/advice grateflly received. Jennie I started with this ng a few weeks ago. A big plus for me was finding people who think and act exactly as I did/do. Acknowledging that I am not the only one with diabetic problems is a big step. Your husband is in denial, and will only become reasonable when he can acknowledge what he has, what it means and that he is not the only one in the world with these problems. He sounds like he does not respond to nagging/bullying, (neither do I) you must know, so I would suggest you try another tact. He will never feel alone if he gets on this ng, and we all know the problems. chin up, we are all with you cheers Bryan

Thank you everyone for your info/advice. If anyone is reckoning on the support being there at time of crisis then please be warned and read on – I decided that I did need to ask for the professional help as it does seem to be a real crisis point here. Last night, still uncertain whether I was dealing with a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown I rang NHS Direct line for advice as to which route to go down.  They advised contacting the mental health crisis team. With a fine selection of numbers given to me for just such an occassion by my own mental health occupational thereapist (agoraphobic) I tried to ring the emergency mental health access team only to discover that the numbers I had been given were 9-5ers only. Hubby picked up again this morning after sleeping from 6:00pm the previous evening and he said he felt more in control but very intolerant of noise and barely able to stay awake and concentrate.    He slept all afternoon and finally admited he needed help and would accept it late afternoon (level down to 20 even though not eaten since mid morning) so I tried again for the self-referral to crisis team – an appointment a few weeks down the line was all I was nearly offered as after being parceled around everyone had gone home early and I was told to contact GP. Phoned GP 5pm and explained to receptionist who promised to speak to GP and call back – waited until 6.30pm for a message from GP offereing an appointment later next week and suggesting that if he got worse in the meantime then I should ring the Samaritans! The GP had either left or couldn’t be bothered at which point my frustration boiled over in a flood of tears.  I told the receptionist that the GP should be ashamed of himself; that I had finally got my husband to ask for help at a time of real crisis and he was prepared to offer nothing but trying to pass a medical crisis to the Samaritans to deal with. Very nice part-time assisting Spanish doctor was drummed up and agreed my husband needed support but that there was nothing she could do. Receptionist spilled the beans that GP is in tomorrow doing medicals (money talks I guess) so now my husband who can barely stay awake and is not safe to drive has to get himself to GPs surgery and probably chain himself to the railings as they don’t do Saturday appointments if he wants the luxury of a crisis of any sort. As a nation we should feel downright ashamed of our health service and all the people it is letting down.  I now know why my husband stopped asking for help.  I feel like I’m crying in my heart with despair.  He wants to help himself now but nobody cares – it’s no wonder he wants it all to end. I did tell him I’d posted here and I will print off all your replies so he can read them. Thank you for caring enough to reply – it is reassuring to know that complete strangers care when the people closest to us who should don’t. And most of all thank you for listening. Jennie

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Im just going to repeat what has been said: go to the nearest A&E appartment near you.  One thing ive found out is that if youre diabetic they rush you through and try to treat you as soon as possible.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new here today and looking for help/advice. My husband is a Type 2 diabetic (Metformin & Gliclizide) and also has a compulsive eating disorder and regularly has blood sugar levels of between 15 & 25. His levels have been very high this past week and he is behaving very strangely – depressed, mood swings, sleepiing most of time. My problem is that because his diabetes is so uncontrolled and i have mnever been given any info  to understand how the diabetes/medicatio works I do not know what is normal and what signs i should look out for as a crisis point or what could happen. Can anyone explain/advise as at moment I am not sure if he is having a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown and he has made me promise not to contact medical professionals as he doesn’t want to see anyone. Another concern is why when my husband has blood tests does he have to keep assuring them that he never drinks alcohol (maybe 4 tins a year at Xmas) but they have a reading oof 60 circled which makes them ask about alcohol? Any help/advice grateflly received. Jennie I started with this ng a few weeks ago. A big plus for me was finding people who think and act exactly as I did/do. Acknowledging that I am not the only one with diabetic problems is a big step. Your husband is in denial, and will only become reasonable when he can acknowledge what he has, what it means and that he is not the only one in the world with these problems. He sounds like he does not respond to nagging/bullying, (neither do I) you must know, so I would suggest you try another tact. He will never feel alone if he gets on this ng, and we all know the problems. chin up, we are all with you cheers Bryan Thank you everyone for your info/advice. If anyone is reckoning on the support being there at time of crisis then please be warned and read on – I decided that I did need to ask for the professional help as it does seem to be a real crisis point here. Last night, still uncertain whether I was dealing with a diabetic crisis or a nervous breakdown I rang NHS Direct line for advice as to which route to go down.  They advised contacting the mental health crisis team. With a fine selection of numbers given to me for just such an occassion by my own mental health occupational thereapist (agoraphobic) I tried to ring the emergency mental health access team only to discover that the numbers I had been given were 9-5ers only. Hubby picked up again this morning after sleeping from 6:00pm the previous evening and he said he felt more in control but very intolerant of noise and barely able to stay awake and concentrate.    He slept all afternoon and finally admited he needed help and would accept it late afternoon (level down to 20 even though not eaten since mid morning) so I tried again for the self-referral to crisis team – an appointment a few weeks down the line was all I was nearly offered as after being parceled around everyone had gone home early and I was told to contact GP. Phoned GP 5pm and explained to receptionist who promised to speak to GP and call back – waited until 6.30pm for a message from GP offereing an appointment later next week and suggesting that if he got worse in the meantime then I should ring the Samaritans! The GP had either left or couldn’t be bothered at which point my frustration boiled over in a flood of tears.  I told the receptionist that the GP should be ashamed of himself; that I had finally got my husband to ask for help at a time of real crisis and he was prepared to offer nothing but trying to pass a medical crisis to the Samaritans to deal with. Very nice part-time assisting Spanish doctor was drummed up and agreed my husband needed support but that there was nothing she could do. Receptionist spilled the beans that GP is in tomorrow doing medicals (money talks I guess) so now my husband who can barely stay awake and is not safe to drive has to get himself to GPs surgery and probably chain himself to the railings as they don’t do Saturday appointments if he wants the luxury of a crisis of any sort. As a nation we should feel downright ashamed of our health service and all the people it is letting down.  I now know why my husband stopped asking for help.  I feel like I’m crying in my heart with despair.  He wants to help himself now but nobody cares – it’s no wonder he wants it all to end. I did tell him I’d posted here and I will print off all your replies so he can read them. Thank you for caring enough to reply – it is reassuring to know that complete strangers care when the people closest to us who should don’t. And most of all thank you for listening. Jennie

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<snip It’s strange that thing about the startch as he was on the Slimming World diet for a while which for him meant vast quantities of potatoe/pasta/beans. His diabetes did improve but it was absolutely sole destroying as we did it together, ate the same and yet he was not losing weight and I was.  We stopped going as he was so embarrassed at not losing weight despite putting so much effort in – he knew no one there would really believe him. Thanks for being there. Jennie

Hi Jennie He’s taken the first step, which is good news. If you want a copy of the diet that worked for me, email direct. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg=92kg, No diabetes meds. Diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

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Hi, Postings before Peter C’s seem to have disappeared – must be something to do with my settings here. Thank you all so much for the advice. I had a bit of a shock yesterday as hubby "disappeared" very early in the morning (before 6.00am).  I was getting really worrried as i had mentioned that he’s not been himself. Left it until 9am and whilst I was trying unsuccessfully to get the GP (on off chance he had gone to see him) the GP called me (having been left note by staff) just to make sure that I new my husband wasn’t welcome there on a Saturday.  I explained how hubby had been and I was really concerned he had done something silly but GP was just trying to get rid of me as quick as possible as he had paying medicals to do – as ever passing the buck he told me to call the police and when he did to call the crisis numbers which i had already told him were no good! Hubby did turn up after a short while – it turns out he’s had enough and was so worried he took himself to hospital at some time in the middle of the night as he didn’t want to worry me! Apparently after loads of tests they have said he has no permanent damage yet but everything he is experiencing is due to the uncontrolled diabetes. I’m going to print off Martin’s very thorough bit and ask hubby to drop by here some time. It’s strange that thing about the startch as he was on the Slimming World diet for a while which for him meant vast quantities of potatoe/pasta/beans. His diabetes did improve but it was absolutely sole destroying as we did it together, ate the same and yet he was not losing weight and I was.  We stopped going as he was so embarrassed at not losing weight despite putting so much effort in – he knew no one there would really believe him. Thanks for being there. Jennie

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02:56:57 Fri, 21 May 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk If you have any say at all in what he eats, as a first step, you might want to try to cut out all starches. This is the strategy I used in normalising my sugars.

You have been advised to cut starches (and substitute with salads) and I agree. But be warned that if you visit a doctor to ask about this, the doctor will probably give you the standard NHS advice which is to base his meals around… starches. The doctors are *wrong* with this advice, in my opinion and in the opinion of most people in this forum who use a blood glucose meter to see the effects of those foods on their blood glucose levels. It takes one meal with and one without the starches and two simple blood glucose readings after an hour or two in each case to see the nonsense. It takes many meals and many tests to find a trend and determine a safe way to eat long-term. Many don’t like to contradict a qualified professional, but personally I’m fed up with them and their worthless, dangerous advice. The only thing is, be clear that you will be making up your own mind which way to jump on this, and that’s life, isn’t it? It is another reason people advise the use of a blood glucose meter: so you can figure out for yourself what is right and what is not. This doesn’t mean you and/or your husband shouldn’t see a doctor: of course he at least should. But the doctor needs to be seen with brain in gear. The doctor can prescribe numerous medications that can help bring those BG levels down rapidly if diet alone doesn’t do it. And they *do* need bringing down. I consider those levels not just high, but dangerous. I should also add that the NHS’s beloved starchy food, low-fat diet *does* work for some people. Most diabetics find instead that a low starch (this is a low but emphatically non-zero carbohydrate), moderate (not low) fat diet easier and indeed more effective for them. Combined with an adequate level of exercise it can work very well and improves (reduces bad) blood fat levels better than the low-fat diet according to recent research. In making decisions, of course, a person is on his own, and reaps their own consequences. If the doctor’s advice is wrong, or if mine and that of others here is wrong, and you follow it, it is *your* responsibility and your husband’s. So get it right, whatever you think that may be. To motivate your husband… see if you can get him to spend some time reading this forum occasionally. Tell him it is interesting. He will learn from the answers to other people’s questions without risk of you de-motivating him by nagging. You asked about levels… Here is the data I have: European Diabetes Policy Group Targets (same as non DB people, mmol/l) Fasting (i.e., on waking): < 6 (better <5.5) 1 hour after meal (after finishing eating): < 8 (better <7.5) 2 hours after meal: < 6.5 From Diabetes UK: The recommended glucose levels for a person with diabetes to aim for are between 4 and 7 before meals and no more than 10 up to 2 hours after a meal.  For someone who treats their diabetes with insulin, it is recommended that they make sure they are around 7 before going to bed, in order to prevent a night time hypo occurring.  Research has shown that keeping tight control of blood glucose levels along with having good blood pressure and cholesterol levels can help to reduce the risk of diabetes complications developing such as eye problems, kidney damage, nerve damage, heart disease and strokes. Notice how the EDPG targets are stricter than the DUK targets. Stricter is probably better. Levels above 10 generally mean sugars are spilling into the kidneys, which will damage them in time. Levels above 6.5 may be high enough to slowly damage the eyes, the nerves, the sex organ, blood vessels, the skin, the heart… and so on. The body becomes prone to fungal and other infections, which can feed on the surplus glucose. Basically the whole body gradually breaks down. You don’t notice the damage for a few years, then something serious happens, like impotence, gout, a stroke, gangrene and amputation, partial blindness… Life expectancy is *much* shorter for uncontrolled diabetics, and life quality begins to deteriorate very sharply once the body can handle the strain no more. Some diabetics die a long, slow, lingering and *very* painful death (the pain comes from the nerve damage, among other things). It is one of the least pleasant ways to die. The good news is, it *can* be controlled. But… it requires that the person concerned be motivated rather than scared. Or, motivated *and* scared. No doubt he is concerned that making the effort to control it will involve changes to his lifestyle that he doesn’t want to make. Of course. My suggestion, i.e., what worked for me, is to try making very small, incremental changes. Get used to them over the course of a month or so, then make some more, get used to them, and so on. As Alan hinted, you might be able to make a few dietary changes without him really noticing – swap the spuds for some salad now and then (maybe include just a couple of small new potatoes and some butter with it so he doesn’t get suspicious). Tee hee. It takes a person about 6 weeks on average to get used to a change. Then he might even look forward to such meals, especially if you can vary them a lot. But, with me, introducing them all at once, and removing the old ones at once, would not have worked: too big a change. If he seriously feels that making the changes would be too difficult, then what I am suggesting, i.e., changing the occasional meal only, at first, could be the way to go. Over the course of a year, say, a lot of changes can happen, and no forcing or willpower will be required. If he just *has* to have that ice-cream or whatever, well, OK, he isn’t there yet. Maybe next month. Diabetes progresses very slowly, so there may be time. Anyway, the occasional *mild* splurge is probably good for a person. Levels above 15 can mean keytones are building up in the blood, which is dangerous, but I don’t know much about this, never having had to deal with such high levels. My understanding is that in some people, such a high level can be an immediate medical crisis, requiring intervention. I could be mistaken though. Others will advise. Quick acting Carbs 100% of calories to Blood Glucose in 15-35 minutes (Table Sugar, Bread & Potatoes) Slow Acting Carbs 90-100% of calories to Blood Glucose in 30-95 minutes (Durum Wheat Pasta, Beans & most Fruit) Protein 60% conversion of calories to Blood Glucose in 180-240 minutes Fat  10-30% conversion of calories to Blood Glucose in 480+ minutes (The idea is to have more of the slower stuff in the diet and less of the faster stuff. This minimises blood glucose levels overall. Exercise helps the body metabolise glucose as well. Excess body fat causes resistance to proper glucose metabolism). Normal HbA1c 4.5-6.5% Normal BP 122/78 (best 100/60 & <130/80) Fats: Total Cholesterol. <4.8 (4-5 but anyway <6 nmol/l) LDL <3 (4 nmol/l high risk) HDL 1.2 (0.7-1.74 nmol/l, <1 high risk) Trigs <1.7 (Normal 0-2.8 but 2.2 high risk) For HDL higher is better, for all the rest, lower is better. — London, UK              Home Page:      http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk                          Web Shop:      http://buy.at/tucana           Mobile Phone Ring Tones:      http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin

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As a nation we should feel downright ashamed of our health service and all the people it is letting down.  I now know why my husband stopped asking for help.  I feel like I’m crying in my heart with despair.  He wants to help himself now but nobody cares – it’s no wonder he wants it all to end.

Not entirely fair – the NHS has been trying to help your hubby ever since he was diagnosed. And has him on suitable meds for his condition but he has kicked sand in their faces. You have to sort out the "compulsive eating disorder" before you can do anything effective with the diabetes.

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Question:

Geeze, he lost 108 lbs and it looks like the closest runner up was 57 lbs. I’d say Atkins rules! Whatcha wanna bet they’ll dredge up some nutritionist to tell us how unhealthy it is or at least that it’s only safe for short term use! Lee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The wrapup on the Quincy (Mass.) high school classmates whose pre-25th reunion diet challenge was filmed by "Dateline NBC" was bumped on November 23, 2003 for coverage of the Michael Jackson scandal. Apparently, it’s been rescheduled for broadcast on January 4, 2004. All of the participants lost weight:  the person who chose Atkins had the most remarkable success, though.

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Lee, 108#  .  .  .  you lost an entire person. Fantastic. "Lee B." Geeze, he lost 108 lbs and it looks like the closest runner up was 57 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – lbs. I’d say Atkins rules! Whatcha wanna bet they’ll dredge up some nutritionist to tell us how unhealthy it is or at least that it’s only safe for short term use! Lee The wrapup on the Quincy (Mass.) high school classmates whose pre-25th reunion diet challenge was filmed by "Dateline NBC" was bumped on November 23, 2003 for coverage of the Michael Jackson scandal. Apparently, it’s been rescheduled for broadcast on January 4, 2004. All of the participants lost weight:  the person who chose Atkins had the most remarkable success, though.

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So you come to this conclusion based on this last post? Not very scientific. It’s still calories in/calories used. In fact it’s not even simple biology at all but simple physics.  I lost close to 60lbs. 30 years ago on a high carb (oatmeal and pasta every day}, moderate protein low fat diet. I’ve only gained about 15 back since (48 years old). I’ve also recently lost 10 of thaton a quasi-Atkins diet. Both diets limited caloric intake, therefore I lost weight. I do find the positive lipid profile changes quite interesting though. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Geeze, he lost 108 lbs and it looks like the closest runner up was 57 lbs. I’d say Atkins rules! Whatcha wanna bet they’ll dredge up some nutritionist to tell us how unhealthy it is or at least that it’s only safe for short term use! Lee The wrapup on the Quincy (Mass.) high school classmates whose pre-25th reunion diet challenge was filmed by "Dateline NBC" was bumped on November 23, 2003 for coverage of the Michael Jackson scandal. Apparently, it’s been rescheduled for broadcast on January 4, 2004. All of the participants lost weight:  the person who chose Atkins had the most remarkable success, though.

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The wrapup on the Quincy (Mass.) high school classmates whose pre-25th reunion diet challenge was filmed by "Dateline NBC" was bumped on November 23, 2003 for coverage of the Michael Jackson scandal. Apparently, it’s been rescheduled for broadcast on January 4, 2004. All of the participants lost weight:  the person who chose Atkins had the most remarkable success, though. "All together, the six lost nearly 300 pounds in nine months. Richard Burnes Jr., a former high school athlete, lost the most: 108 pounds. Dateline” paid for each person to follow a different weight-loss program. All six credited the Dateline” support with helping them stick to their programs. We worked hard to select weight-loss programs where each one was doing something they wanted to do,” said producer Susan Adams. It has been really powerful to watch them go through a life transformation.” [...] Richard Burnes Jr: Married with three sons, Burnes lives in Falmouth and works the night shift for the U.S. Postal Service in Brockton. In January, he weighed 328 pounds. At weigh in on Friday, he was 108 pounds lighter. He followed the Atkins diet and exercised a few times a week." Find the complete article here: http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2003/10/13/news/export31871.txt Yay, Richard Burnes! T.

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:: The wrapup on the Quincy (Mass.) high school classmates whose pre-25th :: reunion diet challenge was filmed by "Dateline NBC" was bumped on :: November 23, 2003 for coverage of the Michael Jackson scandal. :: :: Apparently, it’s been rescheduled for broadcast on January 4, 2004. :: :: All of the participants lost weight:  the person who chose Atkins had :: the most remarkable success, though. :: :: "All together, the six lost nearly 300 pounds in nine months. Richard :: Burnes Jr., a former high school athlete, lost the most: 108 pounds. :: Dateline” paid for each person to follow a different weight-loss :: program. All six credited the Dateline” support with helping them :: stick to their programs. :: :: We worked hard to select weight-loss programs where each one was doing :: something they wanted to do,” said producer Susan Adams. It has been :: really powerful to watch them go through a life transformation.” :: :: [...] :: :: Richard Burnes Jr: Married with three sons, Burnes lives in Falmouth :: and works the night shift for the U.S. Postal Service in Brockton. In :: January, he weighed 328 pounds. At weigh in on Friday, he was 108 :: pounds lighter. He followed the Atkins diet and exercised a few times :: a week." :: :: Find the complete article here: :: :: http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2003/10/13/news/export31871.txt :: :: Yay, Richard Burnes! :: :: T. Thank you for posting this message! Wished they showed pictures.  Amazing! 108lbs!!  You know HE feels fantastic! It’s good to know that Dateline will follow up after one year. ~Carol Ann www.lowcarblosers.com ~ Home of the Monthly Weightloss Challenge

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Question:

New Soy Diets Found to Lower Cholesterol, Are as Effective as Statin Drug Intake     WASHINGTON, Nov. 24 /PRNewswire/ — Soy foods are prominent in popular new vegetarian diets that have proved effective in lowering cholesterol, according to reports from the University of California at Berkeley and also from Cornell University.     The University of California at Berkeley’s health publication, the Wellness Letter, reports in its November issue on three studies by Canadian researchers of the Portfolio diet which features soy food products.     "Soy foods, such as tofu and soy milk, are part of every meal," the Wellness Letter reported.     The Canadian studies compared the diet containing cholesterol-lowering foods such as soy with a conventional low-fat diet and also with a cholesterol-lowering drug.     The studies found that the Portfolio diet featuring soy foods "worked as well as the drug and much better than the low-fat diet, reducing total cholesterol by about one-third in only a few weeks," the California publication said.     One of the Canadian studies was published recently in the Journal of the American Medical Association.     At Cornell’s Weill Medical College, the Food & Fitness Advisor has reported on a study of 46 men and women with high cholesterol who were assigned to a vegetarian diet containing soy protein.  The study found that the test patients on the diet with soy protein had an average decrease of 28.6 percent in their LDL (‘bad’) cholesterol, about equal to the loss for a group receiving a statin drug, while those on a traditional low-fat diet saw a decrease of only eight percent.     Researchers said that if further studies confirm the findings, diets such as those containing soy "could have major implications for people with high cholesterol who want to avoid taking medication." SOURCE Foods for the Future

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Is there any evidence that lowering the cholesterol has any benefits? Anth

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – New Soy Diets Found to Lower Cholesterol, Are as Effective as Statin Drug Intake     WASHINGTON, Nov. 24 /PRNewswire/ — Soy foods are prominent in popular new vegetarian diets that have proved effective in lowering cholesterol, according to reports from the University of California at Berkeley and also from Cornell University.     The University of California at Berkeley’s health publication, the Wellness Letter, reports in its November issue on three studies by Canadian researchers of the Portfolio diet which features soy food products.     "Soy foods, such as tofu and soy milk, are part of every meal," the Wellness Letter reported.     The Canadian studies compared the diet containing cholesterol-lowering foods such as soy with a conventional low-fat diet and also with a cholesterol-lowering drug.     The studies found that the Portfolio diet featuring soy foods "worked as well as the drug and much better than the low-fat diet, reducing total cholesterol by about one-third in only a few weeks," the California publication said.     One of the Canadian studies was published recently in the Journal of the American Medical Association.     At Cornell’s Weill Medical College, the Food & Fitness Advisor has reported on a study of 46 men and women with high cholesterol who were assigned to a vegetarian diet containing soy protein.  The study found that the test patients on the diet with soy protein had an average decrease of 28.6 percent in their LDL (‘bad’) cholesterol, about equal to the loss for a group receiving a statin drug, while those on a traditional low-fat diet saw a decrease of only eight percent.     Researchers said that if further studies confirm the findings, diets such as those containing soy "could have major implications for people with high cholesterol who want to avoid taking medication." SOURCE Foods for the Future

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Why is it good/bad? Anth

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any evidence that lowering the cholesterol has any benefits? Anth Well that depends on the type of cholesterol you are talking about. Lowering HDL is bad. Lowering LDL is good. Lowering overall cholesterol may be good or bad depending on how low it gets and what the ratio of LDL and HDL are. Aloha, Rich "Posting at the top because that’s where the cursor happened to be is like shitting in your pants because that’s where your asshole happened to be."

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Why is it good/bad? Anth "Posting at the top because that’s where the cursor happened to be is like shitting in your pants because that’s where your asshole happened to be."

That’s a great characterization of Anth’s post, compulsive expulsions of feces without a care as to where they may fall. Oh, and his intellectual laziness is almost equally charming.  He could have done a medline or google search, but NO, he’s too busy "crapping his drawers".

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and… you’re an arsehole Andrew. Welcome back to killfile.. Anth

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it good/bad? Anth "Posting at the top because that’s where the cursor happened to be is like shitting in your pants because that’s where your asshole happened to be." That’s a great characterization of Anth’s post, compulsive expulsions of feces without a care as to where they may fall. Oh, and his intellectual laziness is almost equally charming.  He could have done a medline or google search, but NO, he’s too busy "crapping his drawers".

Response:

and furthermore your bitter attacking posts are indicative of your lack of personality in the real world, since you like lashing out at people. In your own words "What a fucking wanker" Anth

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it good/bad? Anth "Posting at the top because that’s where the cursor happened to be is like shitting in your pants because that’s where your asshole happened to be." That’s a great characterization of Anth’s post, compulsive expulsions of feces without a care as to where they may fall. Oh, and his intellectual laziness is almost equally charming.  He could have done a medline or google search, but NO, he’s too busy "crapping his drawers".

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An upscale pizza place here in Lafayette, LA (La Pizzaria on Ambasador Caffrey) has a 10" LC pizza for $12 that they are touting as a 10carb pizza.  The "crust" is pressed Bulgar Wheat and the top is covered with veggies (eggplant, tomatoes, peppers, mushrooms), ground meat chunks and cheese.  It’s excellent, but don’t think Pizza, just think of a huge round yummy whatever.  It was excellent.  It’s their "featured" pizza and has been pushed on the radio for the last month.  I love it. I’m thinking of meal-sealing a few and freezing them. A completely LC restaurant might be on the order and success of any "Healthfood" restaurant.  Those who care will find their way there.  I’d have a section of the place which would be a little grocery store. (No commercial interest) Henrietta

The problem with positioning a restaurant as LC, is that very few people go to restaurants alone.  They go as couples or groups and it’s going to be a group decision on where to go eat.  In most groups, you’d be lucky if one person were doing LC and it’s unlikely that they are going to even attempt to convince the others to go to a LC restaurant.  Even if they did, you’d wind up with more customers who were not LC, than LC.  You’d have to have one hell of an extensive menu, as the non-LC people aren’t going to be satisfied with things like faux mashed potatoes, LC bread, etc.  For all practical purposes it’s easier for the group to select a traditional restuarant where there are still plenty LC alternatives in most cases. Plus, as has already been pointed out, restaurants are a difficult business.  Without years of experience and deep pockets, it’s an easy way to lose money.

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Sharon wrote … Can’t beat steak & salad … I just wish I could cook steak like that at home. You can.

Thanks! ) Rachel (New Zealand)

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"The problem with positioning a restaurant as LC, is that very few people go to restaurants alone." This is the reason I said that they should offer various foods for those not LC’ing and just specialize in LC stuff. PJ — "If voting could really change things, it would be illegal." – Unknown "Nothing can confound A wise man more than laughter from a dunce." – Lord Byron "There is no subject so old that something new cannot be said about it." – Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoyevsky

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An upscale pizza place here in Lafayette, LA (La Pizzaria on Ambasador Caffrey) has a 10" LC pizza for $12 that they are touting as a 10carb pizza.  The "crust" is pressed Bulgar Wheat and the top is covered with veggies (eggplant, tomatoes, peppers, mushrooms), ground meat chunks and cheese.  It’s excellent, but don’t think Pizza, just think of a huge round yummy whatever.  It was excellent.  It’s their "featured" pizza and has been pushed on the radio for the last month.  I love it. I’m thinking of meal-sealing a few and freezing them. A completely LC restaurant might be on the order and success of any "Healthfood" restaurant.  Those who care will find their way there.  I’d have a section of the place which would be a little grocery store. (No commercial interest) Henrietta The problem with positioning a restaurant as LC, is that very few people go to restaurants alone.  They go as couples or groups and it’s going to be a group decision on where to go eat.  In most groups, you’d be lucky if one person were doing LC and it’s unlikely that they are going to even attempt to convince the others to go to a LC restaurant.  Even if they did, you’d wind up with more customers who were not LC, than LC.  You’d have to have one hell of an extensive menu, as the non-LC people aren’t going to be satisfied with things like faux mashed potatoes, LC bread, etc.  For all practical purposes it’s easier for the group to select a traditional restuarant where there are still plenty LC alternatives in most cases. Plus, as has already been pointed out, restaurants are a difficult business.  Without years of experience and deep pockets, it’s an easy way to lose money.

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kim wrote …

(snip) Plus, some wait staff seem to have a difficult time with "no bun", etc. Plus of course the old failsafe – cooking a damn fine steak and not looking like a stunned mullet when someone asks for it with no potatoes or fries (yes I know fries ARE potatoes but I have come across waiting staff who didn’t!)

Did you eat at the same place we did when we asked for no bun and got "YOU DON’T WANT A BUN?????". Can’t beat steak & salad … I just wish I could cook steak like that at home.

I think it has to do with the fact there is no cleaning afterwards.   Kim

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I agree.  I think if it’s what she really wants to do then go for it.  She dfinitely is committed to the diet, I am surprised how much weight she lost, as she was really overweight.  Either way, her husband does cause an issue. I forwarded her all the replies from the post. Thanks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.  I told her go for it as it is really needed.  Her husband keeps telling her it will not work, as she wants to someday go franchaise.  I told her to follow your dreams and go for it.  I also told her I would post to get others opinions as to whether they thought this type of restaurant would be successful and if its a good time to do this as more and more people are going low-carb now. Sam

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Restaurants are extremely expensive to start, many hundreds of thousands even in a smaller town. In NYC with the astronomical rents, it’s going to cost a lot more. But it seems to me that the biggest problem from a business perspective of running a low carb restaurant is the expense of your raw materials. Typically a restaurant fills diners up with cheap bread,  potatoes and pasta, and then feeds them small portions of expensive proteins. But a low carb restaurant is mainly serving that protein. So you will have to have large portions of the expensive protein and you can’t stretch it with anything cheap. Cauliflower, for example, costs about five times as much as potatoes and is much more perishable.So to make your restaurant  work you’d probably have to charge a very high price for the fauxtatoes. Low carb breads will require expensive gluten flour and even then it is likely push the carb counts up pretty high. Given a "low carb" bread, side dish and dessert, you can easily get your per meal carb count up to 50 or more, which will push up meter readings for diabetics, stall dieters, and possibly generate bad press. Better to include low carb options on a regular menu. From what I’ve observed at a restaurant that does this, however, the dieters will order the "low carb" plate, and then, feeling virtuous, spluge on dessert–undoing all the good of the diet. (I’ve done it myself. <g) — Jenny 168.5/137 Low Carb 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero *  NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  I think if it’s what she really wants to do then go for it.  She dfinitely is committed to the diet, I am surprised how much weight she lost, as she was really overweight.  Either way, her husband does cause an issue. I forwarded her all the replies from the post. Thanks I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.  I told her go for it as it is really needed.  Her husband keeps telling her it will not work, as she wants to someday go franchaise.  I told her to follow your dreams and go for it.  I also told her I would post to get others opinions as to whether they thought this type of restaurant would be successful and if its a good time to do this as more and more people are going low-carb now. Sam

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The funny thing about it : I think its a lot easier to eat out as a Lo-Carber than as a person on a restricted calorie or low fat diet.   – - Just order the steak, toss the bread and potatoes, and if you can, get a double helping of salad in its place.   – - Or order fish, chicken, etc.    Obvoiusly Pizza Joints and certain types of places represent a problem… but whatever, I think a lo-carb friendly restaurant is a restaurant that has atleast a few items on the menu that are breaded and covered in starchy sauces.

This is awesome…. hopefully PETA will not put a stop to it, though. mk5000 "We will not agree to launch negotiations at this meeting. We will ask the meeting to refer the new issues back to Geneva for further clarification." –Rafidah Aziz, Malaysia’s veteran trade minister

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I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.  I told her go for it as it is really needed.  Her husband keeps telling her it will not work, as she wants to someday go franchaise.  I told her to follow your dreams and go for it.  I also told her I would post to get others opinions as to whether they thought this type of restaurant would be successful and if its a good time to do this as more and more people are going low-carb now. Sam

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I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.

I hate to be a wet blanket, but as a former restaurant owner let me tell you this is a tough, tough business and most new restaurants fail so your friend should be prepared both to work like a dog and to lose her investment.  That said, the level of interest in low carb is so high and the population of metro NY so dense that this looks like an idea with possibilities.  I suggest considering buying an existing operation and grafting on a low carb menu.  That way at least you can look at the numbers and the effort required to achieve them.

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I think it would work in NY in an area of dense population of office workers-make it a primarily lunch place.  Have a to-go menu for lunch that workers can take to the office.  You’d make a fortune if you had delivery at lunch time. Otherwise, I think you are better off opening a regular restaurant and tacking on LC items. Henrietta

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I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.  I told her go for it as it is really needed.  Her husband keeps telling her it will not work, as she wants to someday go franchaise.  I told her to follow your dreams and go for it.  I also told her I would post to get others opinions as to whether they thought this type of restaurant would be successful and if its a good time to do this as more and more people are going low-carb now. Sam

Better to have tried and failed then to have not tried at all. I wish I had the umph to try that. Chris B.

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              If it was me, I’d start it as a small take out / delivery place and see how it goes and as another said target the lunch hour crowd. Andrea

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In Chelsea area there are plenty of low carb restaurants opening for the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.  I told her go for it as it is really needed.  Her husband keeps telling her it will not work, as she wants to someday go franchaise.  I told her to follow your dreams and go for it.  I also told her I would post to get others opinions as to whether they thought this type of restaurant would be successful and if its a good time to do this as more and more people are going low-carb now. Sam

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I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.  I told her go for it as it is really needed.  Her husband keeps telling her it will not work, as she wants to someday go franchaise.  I told her to follow your dreams and go for it.  I also told her I would post to get others opinions as to whether they thought this type of restaurant would be successful and if its a good time to do this as more and more people are going low-carb now. Sam

Have your friend email me and ask any questions she wants. After doing it for a few decades, I know where the mistakes can be made because I made most of them. Fortunately, I had good people working with me and was able to make it work. The restaurant business has the highest failure rate of any. If it’s not run as a hard-headed business, it will be a good way to lose a huge amount of money. Starting one is expensive. The return will be less than she thinks and the hours will be twice or three times what they would be at a normal job. If she hasn’t worked in a restaurant and had some management experience, it will almost surely fail. It’s a difficult business where everything has to be just right for it to work. The NY metro area is probably a good place to do it, but wait’ll she sees how much it costs per seat to get started. And the various agencies and political bodies. Inspectors. Employees… It goes on and on.

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The funny thing about it : I think its a lot easier to eat out as a Lo-Carber than as a person on a restricted calorie or low fat diet.   – - Just order the steak, toss the bread and potatoes, and if you can, get a double helping of salad in its place.   – - Or order fish, chicken, etc.    Obvoiusly Pizza Joints and certain types of places represent a problem… but whatever, I think a lo-carb friendly restaurant is a restaurant that has atleast a few items on the menu that are breaded and covered in starchy sauces. I’m starting my own place in Tokyo… and I decided to offer a "high protein" menu… This is Japan… people can’t live without their rice, but I’m offering everyone some food they can enjoy.  I’ll probably have a rice cooker too.   Heck, if I’m going to poison them with booze, why not rice… however, they’ll also have a wide variety of sausages, fresh unprocessed Hamburger steaks, assorted cheeses, tofu, salads, and cutlets to choose from as well… and yep, plenty of nuts too (<– me probably being the biggest.)   – -  Regardless of the diet you’re on, this stuff is definitely more "qualitive" food than Bufallo Wings and Popcorn…    It is also my hope in offering fresh food that won’t sicken and bloat my customers, they’ll be able to stay and drink more and not feel sick when they leave.  - – There’s also something else that inspired me to offer a lo-carb menu to my customers… lo-carb food is easier to prepare… O.K. if you want to make lo-carb food that’s DISGUISED to taste and look like high carb food… then you need to put in a lot of ingrediants… but there’s no reason you can’t take a cutlet of chicken, a bit of salt, maybe some butter, chop up a fresh scallion of it, splash a bit of soy sauce sweetened with a pinch of splenda and make something nice… Now if you want to try to make LO CARB BREADED CHICKEN… then you’ll have to do all the "high carb" style preparation.   – - But in my opinion, you take some fresh hamburger meet, and put it on a George Foreman Grill, add a few of the right seasoning and maybe top it with a bit of cheese, the taste (if you do it right) will beat out any fancy recipe in the world. Regarding working yourself to death :  I’ve had friends who’ve run restaurants.   I admired their cooking, and their b*llbr**king work ethic, but pitied the life they did.   My establishment will be primarily for boozing and listening to music and only be open from about 7:00 until the last train… You couldn’t pay me to open one of those continental type diners unless I had a LOT of money and didn’t have to run it myself…  A coal miner probably has it easier than the typical on premise restaurant owner/chef ! Whatever, lot’s of luck on the restaurant… if I’m ever in town, you know I’ll be dropping in…! Eddie eddielandsberg.com

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I hate to be a wet blanket, but as a former restaurant owner let me tell you this is a tough, tough business and most new restaurants fail so your friend should be prepared both to work like a dog and to lose her investment.  

Absolutely 100% correct.

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Make sure you have a wide menu to accommodate those who aren’t on Atkins as well, otherwise it might become the place, "THOSE" people go to. Specialize in Atkins, but don’t be exclusively Atkins and it should work fine. Also, don’t mention Atkins unless you’re planning on planning on working a deal with them and peddle their products as well, why promote the name if you’re not going to be able to peddle the product? Good luck, PJ — "If voting could really change things, it would be illegal." – Unknown "Nothing can confound A wise man more than laughter from a dunce." – Lord Byron "There is no subject so old that something new cannot be said about it." – Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoyevsky

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.  I told her go for it as it is really needed.  Her husband keeps telling her it will not work, as she wants to someday go franchaise.  I told her to follow your dreams and go for it.  I also told her I would post to get others opinions as to whether they thought this type of restaurant would be successful and if its a good time to do this as more and more people are going low-carb now. Sam

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I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.  I told her go for it as it is really needed.  Her husband keeps telling her it will not work, as she wants to someday go franchaise.  I told her to follow your dreams and go for it.  I also told her I would post to get others opinions as to whether they thought this type of restaurant would be successful and if its a good time to do this as more and more people are going low-carb now.

What’s the difference between a regular restaurant and this low-carb restaurant? You can get meat/cheese/fish/vegetables/sugar free pop at any restaurant. What’s the twist that makes this low-carb restaurant something that someone would want to frequent? You mean a whole restaurant who’s only difference is they offer low-carb dessert or something? Sometimes people just don’t think, and sometimes they think even less then that. I’ll wager it will not work.

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Better to have tried and failed then to have not tried at all. I wish I had the umph to try that. Chris B.

This isn’t about going after a girl. Trying and failing at a restaurant involves a lot of effort, time and money. Failing may not be an option, and considering the reasoning in coming to this decision, it’s plain silly.

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Sugar free salad dressings to start. Fauxpotatoes. BLT Salads. Low carb bread. Low carb Mexican food, ie Tortillias. That’s just off the top of my head, give me a week and I’m sure I can expand that list quite a bit. PJ — "If voting could really change things, it would be illegal." – Unknown "Nothing can confound A wise man more than laughter from a dunce." – Lord Byron "There is no subject so old that something new cannot be said about it." – Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoyevsky

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a good friend at work who has been on Atkins for a while now and looks really great.  She wants to quit her job and open a restuarant based on Atkins and other Low-Carb menus in the Metro area of NY.  I told her go for it as it is really needed.  Her husband keeps telling her it will not work, as she wants to someday go franchaise.  I told her to follow your dreams and go for it.  I also told her I would post to get others opinions as to whether they thought this type of restaurant would be successful and if its a good time to do this as more and more people are going low-carb now. What’s the difference between a regular restaurant and this low-carb restaurant? You can get meat/cheese/fish/vegetables/sugar free pop at any restaurant. What’s the twist that makes this low-carb restaurant something that someone would want to frequent? You mean a whole restaurant who’s only difference is they offer low-carb dessert or something? Sometimes people just don’t think, and sometimes they think even less then that. I’ll wager it will not work.

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An upscale pizza place here in Lafayette, LA (La Pizzaria on Ambasador Caffrey) has a 10" LC pizza for $12 that they are touting as a 10carb pizza.  The "crust" is pressed Bulgar Wheat and the top is covered with veggies (eggplant, tomatoes, peppers, mushrooms), ground meat chunks and cheese.  It’s excellent, but don’t think Pizza, just think of a huge round yummy whatever.  It was excellent.  It’s their "featured" pizza and has been pushed on the radio for the last month.  I love it. I’m thinking of meal-sealing a few and freezing them. A completely LC restaurant might be on the order and success of any "Healthfood" restaurant.  Those who care will find their way there.  I’d have a section of the place which would be a little grocery store. (No commercial interest) Henrietta

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In Chelsea area there are plenty of low carb restaurants opening

What are their menues like?  

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Sugar free salad dressings to start. Fauxpotatoes. BLT Salads. Low carb bread. Low carb Mexican food, ie Tortillias. That’s just off the top of my head, give me a week and I’m sure I can expand that list quite a bit.

Or how about different ways to cook things.   There is a chain restaurant here that does chicken (mainly).  Had a side of the steamed veggies at our regular restaurant – no problems.  Went to another location and the veggies were done in a honey coating or something. Never thought to ask because the other locations were just plain.   Plus, some wait staff seem to have a difficult time with "no bun", etc. Kim

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kim wrote … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sugar free salad dressings to start. Fauxpotatoes. BLT Salads. Low carb bread. Low carb Mexican food, ie Tortillias. Or how about different ways to cook things.   There is a chain restaurant here that does chicken (mainly).  Had a side of the steamed veggies at our regular restaurant – no problems.  Went to another location and the veggies were done in a honey coating or something. Never thought to ask because the other locations were just plain. Plus, some wait staff seem to have a difficult time with "no bun", etc.

Plus of course the old failsafe – cooking a damn fine steak and not looking like a stunned mullet when someone asks for it with no potatoes or fries (yes I know fries ARE potatoes but I have come across waiting staff who didn’t!) Can’t beat steak & salad … I just wish I could cook steak like that at home. Rachel (New Zealand)

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Can’t beat steak & salad … I just wish I could cook steak like that at home.

You can. Get yourself a good pan that is oven safe. A good cut of steak – we like NY Strip. Season as you like. We Use Montreal Steak Seasoning. Heat up pan. Put in Olive oil and sear steak on both sides. Add sliced peppers and onions, a little red wine and put in oven at about 350-400 degrees until cooked through as you like. Remove (use mit!) from oven and place steak, onions and peppers on plate. Heat what is left in the pan to boiling with a little more wine and cook down a bit. Add unsalted butter, maybe a little cream and cook down again. Before my low carbing I’d put this mixture on a baked potato. Now we just put it over our steak and onion/peppers. My family says better than a restaurant! -Sharon

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Question:

Extra Pounds Cost Big Dollars Rise In U.S. Obesity Labeled A Crisis By JOHN A. MacDONALD Courant Staff Writer August 16 2003 WASHINGTON — The epidemic of obesity in the United States is costing the government and private business so much that both are aggressively looking for ways to cut the bill. "It’s a huge problem," said Helen Darling, president of the Washington Business Group on Health, a private organization that represents major employers. Government officials, from Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson on down, call the rise in obesity a crisis, in part because of the costs it adds to the nation’s health care bill. Obesity and overweight account for $93 billion a year in U.S. spending on medical care, a major new study found. Government and private business share the tab. So far, most of the solutions they have proposed have tilted toward gentle persuasion rather than heavy regulation. Thus, several Blue Cross health care plans and AARP are encouraging their members to take a daily walk, while Thompson has rejected a proposal to require restaurants to list calorie counts and other nutritional information on their menus. "Secretary Thompson is giving this very serious attention," said Dr. Walter C. Willett, a Harvard University nutritionist and obesity expert. "There is much more that the government can do, including developing high standards for school food programs, setting standards for promotion of foods for kids and providing safe and attractive places for biking and walking." But Bill Stevenson, a spokesman for Tennessee Blue Cross, sponsor of one of the walk programs, said, "Being heavy-handed on things like this doesn’t work. You have to change lifestyle, and you can’t do it by edict." Americans do appear to be open to government intervention to stem the tide of childhood obesity, according to a poll presented at a recent Harvard forum. But when it comes to adults, the poll found the nation is split. Half said obesity is a health problem that society needs to solve; half said it is an issue of personal responsibility. Dr. Donald A. Young, president of the Health Insurance Association of America, said, "I think the problem cuts across society and is a substantial one. But it’s tough to deal with." `Alarming’ Cost Increase Obesity has gotten a huge amount of attention since former Surgeon General David Satcher released a report in January 2001 that found the prevalence of overweight and obesity had nearly doubled among children and adolescents since 1980. Today, 30 percent of American adults and 15 percent of children are obese, according to the Centers for Disease Control, and many more are overweight. The problem has significant costs, an analysis of the subject showed. Written by Eric A. Finkelstein, an economist at the North Carolina research firm RTI International, the study estimated that obesity and overweight account for 9.1 percent of total U.S. medical spending, up from 5.7 percent in 1995. Finkelstein called the increase "alarming" because obesity can lead to coronary heart disease, hypertension, gallbladder disease and several forms of cancer. The Washington business group estimates that obesity adds $12 billion a year to the costs of its 175 member employers, either through direct medical expenses or lost productivity. A study by Roland Sturm, an economist at the RAND Corp., a California think tank, found that obesity adds an average of $395 per patient per year to health care costs, more than smoking ($230) or heavy drinking ($150). Aversion to regulation Despite the costs, there is a limit to what the public will accept, according to the poll presented to the Harvard forum. Only 41 percent supported a special tax on junk food – an idea Sturm said would be difficult to administer – and only 37 percent said they strongly supported requiring restaurants to list calorie content on their menus. By contrast, the poll found more public support for regulatory actions designed to protect children. Nearly 60 percent said they liked the idea of banning foods such as soda, chips and candy in schools and 58 percent backed limiting television advertising for "unhealthy" foods. Parents are "crying out for help, information and alternatives to come to terms with the challenges of childhood obesity," said Jennifer Park, who works for a New York City market-research organization that has studied the issue. The search for solutions is just beginning, most experts say. Health Secretary Thompson has made obesity a personal crusade, even going on a diet himself and encouraging his staff to do the same. Next year, Thompson will be in charge of distributing $100 million in new grants to states and communities to sponsor activities to curb obesity, diabetes and asthma, on top of $15 million this year. On the regulatory front, the Food and Drug Administration has announced that food producers will be required to include information on artery-clogging trans fat on product nutrition labels in 2006. At the state level, Texas and Arkansas have limited the sale of candy and soda in schools. Meanwhile, the restaurant chain Applebee’s said it would work with Weight Watchers International to develop health-conscious menu items and McDonald’s plans to expand its menu to include fruits, vegetables and yogurt. But the National Restaurant Association said its members should make such decisions freely, not under the threat of government intervention. The Washington business group also wants to avoid government regulation. The business group has set up the Institute on the Costs and Health Effects of Obesity, which will propose strategies and solutions and serve as a catalyst for change, said Darling, the organization’s president. Aetna, one of the institute’s founding members, will lend its expertise by providing data on obesity and its medical consequences, said Dr. Cheryl Pegus, national medical director for women’s health. At the same time, Pegus said, Aetna is mailing educational materials about diet and exercise to many of its members. To encourage walking, Blue Cross plans in Colorado and Nevada to distribute 20,000 pedometers to members who participate in plan-sponsored treks. Destiny Health offers members points they can redeem for trips if they keep their weight down, and some CIGNA plans offer their members discounts at fitness centers. The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, a large health care philanthropy, has handed out $70 million in grants aimed at finding ways to reduce obesity. But Dr. J. Michael McGinnis, director of the foundation’s health group, is under no illusion. Getting people to switch to healthier diets and abandon sedentary habits will not be easy, he said. "We know it’s a tough challenge," McGinnis said. "Behavior is not easy to change. It’s especially tough to change when all the signals are going in the opposite direction." ******* — Steve