Low Fat Diet

Question:

"Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

Like Alias said, a low-fat diet can really help.  Tell her to try the Weight Watcher’s 25-point diet to help keep track of it at first.  It’s easy. A regular vitamin-mineral supplement with no iron.  I take the Wal-Mart equivalent to Centrum Silver. Make it clear to friends, co-workers, and whoever else that her energy is limited due to the HCV.  Take a stand and stick to it.  People will quickly respect her requests not to give her too much to do.  One of my favorite responses is, "I’ll do my best, but I’m really running out of gas."  They know I mean it.  Conversely, I also tell them when I’m feeling really good and try to do a bit extra at those times. Since Katie doesn’t seem to be one to shirk her responsibilities, I think it might be time to gently let others know she does have limitations.

Response:

In article <xQOee.27339$0X6.19535@edtnps90>,  "Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonshine.net> wrote: > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > > Hi guys, > > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > > be appreciated. > > Mom > Hi Mom, > Has she seen her doc about the fatigue? Is her fatigue from her busy > schedule? Is she getting lots of sleep? Someone else suggested she look at > her diet; this is a good place to start.

It might not be applicable but when I’m running at full throttle I find I am MUCH better off eating small amounts of food all day long instead of three larger meals.  Continuous energy and less after-meal tiredness. G

Response:

"Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

Hello I had a very long wait between being diagnosed and actually atarting tratment, about 6 years.  Early on I had really bad fatigue problems, to the extent that I had to stop driving.  I made significant lifestyle changes, stopped smoking, drinking, got my diet in order and started a good exercise program. To get over the initial hump of the fatigue I visited a TCM practitioner, within three days of taking herbs I found that my energy levels had lifted. The TCM lifted my energy enough to enebale me to make the lifestyle changes. I stuck with herbs for a couple of months but eventually the lifestyle became self sustaining. If you are thinking about trying Traditional Chinese Medicine then make sure you find a pucka practitioner. Jonathan

Response:

"Thip" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:3e22ebFrqk4U1@individual.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom > Like Alias said, a low-fat diet can really help.  Tell her to try the > Weight Watcher’s 25-point diet to help keep track of it at first.  It’s > easy. > A regular vitamin-mineral supplement with no iron.  I take the Wal-Mart > equivalent to Centrum Silver. > Make it clear to friends, co-workers, and whoever else that her energy is > limited due to the HCV.  Take a stand and stick to it.  People will > quickly respect her requests not to give her too much to do.  One of my > favorite responses is, "I’ll do my best, but I’m really running out of > gas."  They know I mean it.  Conversely, I also tell them when I’m feeling > really good and try to do a bit extra at those times. Since Katie doesn’t > seem to be one to shirk her responsibilities, I think it might be time to > gently let others know she does have limitations.

Thank you all for your replies. I am forwarding them to her right now. They all were wonderful and really good ideas to help her combat this fatigue. As far as her starting treatment I know she is considering it and weighing it heavily. She knows her limitaions and what she can handle and I am sure she won’t do it until she feels she is 100% ready emotionally. A few of her friends are going through it right now so she has the advantage of seeing first hand the side effects. Her boyfriends mother is dying of sinus cancer. She is younger than I am and found out last week it is spreading. Katie realizes right now her starting treatment could be more than her boyfriend can deal with and she will need his support. So, until she makes the ultimate decision to go through with this your suggestions will help lessen her exhaustion. WS, to your question does she get enough sleep? Yes, she sleeps a full night every night and generally takes a nap everyday. She has to. Her boyfriend is great. Even though he doesn’t have Hep-C he takes her nap with her everyday. She does however keep a very busy schedule. Thank you all again and hugs back to you Anja. You always seem to pop in when I need you! You are all great. Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

On Sat, 7 May 2005 02:51:57 -0400, "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net>, in message ID <VrKdnbORMssS-OHfRVn…@adelphia.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >Thank you all for your replies. I am forwarding them to her right now. They >all were wonderful and really good ideas to help her combat this fatigue. >As far as her starting treatment I know she is considering it and weighing >it heavily. She knows her limitaions and what she can handle and I am sure >she won’t do it until she feels she is 100% ready emotionally. A few of her >friends are going through it right now so she has the advantage of seeing >first hand the side effects. Her boyfriends mother is dying of sinus cancer. >She is younger than I am and found out last week it is spreading. Katie >realizes right now her starting treatment could be more than her boyfriend >can deal with and she will need his support. So, until she makes the >ultimate decision to go through with this your suggestions will help lessen >her exhaustion.

From what I’ve seen of people doing tx, it’s probably a good idea for her to be drug free for at least a couple of years before doing it. This doesn’t apply if it’s medically urgent that she does tx of course. Some people do tx while still using of course.  No problem with that either IMO as long as they’ve been educated about not sharing equipment to avoid re-infection. — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

Response:

"Paul" <dontspa…@westgreen.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message

news:e2qo715mc8p6v6fuohhkndb1s8so9670fl@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sat, 7 May 2005 02:51:57 -0400, "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net>, in > message ID <VrKdnbORMssS-OHfRVn…@adelphia.com>, in the newsgroup > alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >>Thank you all for your replies. I am forwarding them to her right now. >>They >>all were wonderful and really good ideas to help her combat this fatigue. >>As far as her starting treatment I know she is considering it and weighing >>it heavily. She knows her limitaions and what she can handle and I am sure >>she won’t do it until she feels she is 100% ready emotionally. A few of >>her >>friends are going through it right now so she has the advantage of seeing >>first hand the side effects. Her boyfriends mother is dying of sinus >>cancer. >>She is younger than I am and found out last week it is spreading. Katie >>realizes right now her starting treatment could be more than her boyfriend >>can deal with and she will need his support. So, until she makes the >>ultimate decision to go through with this your suggestions will help >>lessen >>her exhaustion. > From what I’ve seen of people doing tx, it’s probably a good idea for > her to be drug free for at least a couple of years before doing it. > This doesn’t apply if it’s medically urgent that she does tx of > course. > Some people do tx while still using of course.  No problem with that > either IMO as long as they’ve been educated about not sharing > equipment to avoid re-infection. > — > Paul

Thanks Paul, That is something that scares me a bit too. She has only been clean for a little less than a year but I have full confidence that Katie will not do treatment until she feels 100% ready. When Katie is clean and sober she has a very good head on her shoulders. She must take after her old man. Ha! Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Use the reply by email facility in your > newsreader to send email

Response:

"rasputin" <ras.pu…@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:d5ho0f$rpv$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom > Hello > I had a very long wait between being diagnosed and actually atarting > tratment, about 6 years.  Early on I had really bad fatigue problems, to > the extent that I had to stop driving.  I made significant lifestyle > changes, stopped smoking, drinking, got my diet in order and started a > good exercise program. > To get over the initial hump of the fatigue I visited a TCM practitioner, > within three days of taking herbs I found that my energy levels had > lifted. The TCM lifted my energy enough to enebale me to make the > lifestyle changes. I stuck with herbs for a couple of months but > eventually the lifestyle became self sustaining. > If you are thinking about trying Traditional Chinese Medicine then make > sure you find a pucka practitioner. > Jonathan

Thanks Jonathon, I’ll pass this on. I agree quitting smoking would help tremendously. One thing at at time though. I’m just happy right now that she managed to quit the other thing. Thank God she doesn’t drink. Hates the stuff. Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

On Sat, 7 May 2005 03:22:04 -0400, "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net>, in message ID <ttadnXgvd_oD8eHfRVn…@adelphia.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >That is something that scares me a bit too. She has only been clean for a >little less than a year but I have full confidence that Katie will not do >treatment until she feels 100% ready. When Katie is clean and sober she has >a very good head on her shoulders. She must take after her old man. Ha!

Maybe her mother has got something to do with that too.  :-) — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

Response:

Hi Russ, I really don’t think that is it. She seems very happy but you never know…………….. Some thing to think about. Thanks. Mom "Russ" <sourdo55 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:117vaqeh6gq8b45@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Perhaps some depression going on???? > — > Russ > Visit Alaska @ http://www.tannersacre.com > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:o4-dnY0BKptvUuffRVn-gw@adelphia.com… >> "Cactus Jammies" <n…@joshuatree.nemor> wrote in message >> news:gByee.42467$HR1.14017@clgrps12… >> > does she have things to do that get her out of the house, or constantly >> > threaten to do so?  I know that even anticipating a period in public, >> > trying to cope in bank line ups and the like, can be extremely > distressing >> > before you set out.  So it is nice to not have to consider mustering > some >> > kind of spunk to get out on the street, or else dread it, just the >> > same. >> > Be sure she gets her fruit and carbs in the mornings.  And hang on, >> > keep >> > swimming.  She is young,  she should be able to handle this stuff and >> > skateboard across Kansas, too!  8-) >> > Cactus Jammies >> Hi CJ, >> She is very active, She works 40 hours a week and goes to AA meetings 5 >> nights a week. She sponsors 2 girls and meets with them on a regular > basis. >> Like I said she is a real trooper but she is so tired all of the time. > I’ll >> suggest she look at her diet. >> Mom >> > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message >> > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… >> >> Hi guys, >> >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired > all >> >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the >> >> fatigue >> >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen >> >> it >> >> would be appreciated. >> >> Mom

Response:

Perhaps some depression going on???? — Russ Visit Alaska @ http://www.tannersacre.com "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:o4-dnY0BKptvUuffRVn-gw@adelphia.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Cactus Jammies" <n…@joshuatree.nemor> wrote in message > news:gByee.42467$HR1.14017@clgrps12… > > does she have things to do that get her out of the house, or constantly > > threaten to do so?  I know that even anticipating a period in public, > > trying to cope in bank line ups and the like, can be extremely distressing > > before you set out.  So it is nice to not have to consider mustering some > > kind of spunk to get out on the street, or else dread it, just the same. > > Be sure she gets her fruit and carbs in the mornings.  And hang on, keep > > swimming.  She is young,  she should be able to handle this stuff and > > skateboard across Kansas, too!  8-) > > Cactus Jammies > Hi CJ, > She is very active, She works 40 hours a week and goes to AA meetings 5 > nights a week. She sponsors 2 girls and meets with them on a regular basis. > Like I said she is a real trooper but she is so tired all of the time. I’ll > suggest she look at her diet. > Mom > > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > >> Hi guys, > >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue > >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it > >> would be appreciated. > >> Mom

Response:

"Gordo Mondragon" <ga_mondra…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ga_mondragon-79A04B.21530005052005@nyctyp01-ge0.rdc-nyc.rr.com… > In article <L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn…@adelphia.com>, > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote: >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of >> the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is >> there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would >> be appreciated. > Is she on treatment, or chronic Hep C? > G

Hi Gordo, She is not on treatment yet. Chronis Hep-C at this point. Mom

Response:

Mom wrote: > "Gordo Mondragon" <ga_mondra…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ga_mondragon-79A04B.21530005052005@nyctyp01-ge0.rdc-nyc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > In article <L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn…@adelphia.com>, > > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote: > >> Hi guys, > >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > >> of > >> the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > >> there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it > >> would > >> be appreciated. > > Is she on treatment, or chronic Hep C? > > G > Hi Gordo, > She is not on treatment yet. Chronis Hep-C at this point. > Mom

I’m sorry to hear that mom. Yogic breathing and movement help balance your energy. Propably some of the lying down poses and Twists, they are helpful for cleansing the liver.  www.yogajournal.com there are also poses to relive fatigue also relax before bed. Peace, MaryANn

Response:

"Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

Hi Mom, Has she seen her doc about the fatigue? Is her fatigue from her busy schedule? Is she getting lots of sleep? Someone else suggested she look at her diet; this is a good place to start. Is her diet balanced? Lots of fresh fruit and veggies? Wouldn’t hurt to cut out the red meat. Sugar gives a quick boost of energy but results in tiredness later on. Ditto caffiene. Warn her to stay away from commercial "energy" products that are just a quick sugar jolt. Spirulina, although high in iron, is a bit of an energy booster. Megavitamin dosing is something else that can be dangerous. If the fatigue is from her hep C, maybe it’s time for her to have a serious rethink about treatment. All the best to Katie, and to you too. Spidey

Response:

"Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote in message

news:Ifyee.42719$US.10319@news.ono.com… >I found that consuming as little animal fat as possible in conjunction with >taking Milk Thistle helped reduce the fatigue considerably. I also >recommend substituting soy milk for animal milk whenever possible. > Alias

Thanks Cody. I will relay this to her. Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom

Response:

"Cactus Jammies" <n…@joshuatree.nemor> wrote in message

news:gByee.42467$HR1.14017@clgrps12… > does she have things to do that get her out of the house, or constantly > threaten to do so?  I know that even anticipating a period in public, > trying to cope in bank line ups and the like, can be extremely distressing > before you set out.  So it is nice to not have to consider mustering some > kind of spunk to get out on the street, or else dread it, just the same. > Be sure she gets her fruit and carbs in the mornings.  And hang on, keep > swimming.  She is young,  she should be able to handle this stuff and > skateboard across Kansas, too!  8-) > Cactus Jammies

Hi CJ, She is very active, She works 40 hours a week and goes to AA meetings 5 nights a week. She sponsors 2 girls and meets with them on a regular basis. Like I said she is a real trooper but she is so tired all of the time. I’ll suggest she look at her diet. Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom

Response:

In article <L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn…@adelphia.com>,  "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote: > Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all of > the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated.

Is she on treatment, or chronic Hep C? G

Response:

does she have things to do that get her out of the house, or constantly threaten to do so?  I know that even anticipating a period in public, trying to cope in bank line ups and the like, can be extremely distressing before you set out.  So it is nice to not have to consider mustering some kind of spunk to get out on the street, or else dread it, just the same.  Be sure she gets her fruit and carbs in the mornings.  And hang on, keep swimming.  She is young,  she should be able to handle this stuff and skateboard across Kansas, too!  8-) Cactus Jammies "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

Response:

Hi guys, I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would be appreciated. Mom

Response:

I found that consuming as little animal fat as possible in conjunction with taking Milk Thistle helped reduce the fatigue considerably. I also recommend substituting soy milk for animal milk whenever possible. Alias "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

Response:

Or is she on treatment? If so, scratch the milk thistle advice. Alias "Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I found that consuming as little animal fat as possible in conjunction with >taking Milk Thistle helped reduce the fatigue considerably. I also >recommend substituting soy milk for animal milk whenever possible. > Alias > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom

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Question:

Re: ww and pregnancyYou need to read that site a little more thoroughly.  12 lbs is not enough at all.  Here is a quote from the site. How much weight should I gain if I was overweight when I started my pregnancy? You should gain between 15 and 25 pounds by the end of your pregnancy, at a rate of approximately 2 to 3 pounds a month. (Experts advise women of average weight to gain between 25 and 35 pounds.) As you can see it says 15-25 lbs by the end of the pregnancy if you are overweight.  My OB/GYN advised me who weighed over 225 lbs when I got pregnant all three times to not gain more than 30 lbs.  I will say that I delivered a healthy 8lb 8 oz baby and lost 22 lbs when she was born.  I had gained a total of 28 lbs during the pregnancy and had the remaining 6 lbs off the following week.  It is not a time to lose weight it is a time to maintain the weight you have and gain at a healthy rate so that is all for the baby and not excess being left on your body.  You can not restrict your diet as you will be restricting important nutrients for a growing fetus and you want to have a healthy child more than anything. Debbie   The 25-30 lbs is only for women who are in a healthy weight range when they begin they’re pregnancy. I was about 30lbs overweight when I was pregnant and was advised to only gain about 12 lbs. http://www.babycenter.com has a pregnancy weight calculator if you want more info on acceptable weight gain.   Sarah   198/198/132   If your doctor allows you to stay on program, do that.  Of course you need   the extra milk servings and to increase your points just like you do when   you are breastfeeding.  The main thing is to maintain  your weight while you   are pregnant, not lose large amounts of weight.  As you can see from my   results that is what happened.  I gained the recommended amount for  healthy   pregnancy of 25-30 lbs.  You are not eating for two, you are a healthy diet   to maintain the pregnancy and deliver a healthy baby.   hi all     this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend   ww   meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and   the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby.   i   really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a   toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of   weight   back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant?     —   Mel   ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m   really quite busy.        

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hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant? — Mel ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy.

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Don’t know nowadays,  but i joined WW three years ago, then i fell pregnant within a couple of months. My leader told me that i should not follow WW….Sadly i gained a great deal more weight during and after pregnancy, but now i am on the road to losing it all…20 lbs down since the beginning of the year…:-) As i say it might be different now, but if you are not able to follow WW, just make sure you follow a sensible diet, and do not go nuts like i did…Good luck…:-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant?

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this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and

I don’t think you’re supposed to be on a weight-loss plan while pregnant, no.  Your ob/gyn can probably give you a good eating plan while pregnant, to make sure you get all the necessary nutrition, and then you can try to stick as close to that as necessary, modifying it with your doctor’s help as needed. You *can* be in WW if you’ve already delivered, and you’re nursing. You’ll have slightly different point goals, and you need more calcium, but it can be done.  That may help getting the weight off after the baby’s born.  While the baby’s in, tho, you need to make it as comfy as possible, and unfortunately for you, losing weight isn’t comfy for the baby. But hey, just think, when the kid’s a teenager, you can gripe about not only how long labor was, but how you had to suffer through not dieting and it’s all the kid’s fault Tay

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WW does not allow you to attend if you are preggo. But join now before you join and get all of the info on the program. Show them to your doctor. The core plan might just be what you want to follow while you are pregnant. Being pregnant does not mean that you should eat for 2+ people. Eating healthy can help you keep the weight down. Ask your doctor what changes you need to make to the ww plan so that you can have a healthy gain and a healthy baby. You can still post here or join online (I think) while preggo.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant? — Mel ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and I don’t think you’re supposed to be on a weight-loss plan while pregnant, no.  Your ob/gyn can probably give you a good eating plan while pregnant, to make sure you get all the necessary nutrition, and then you can try to stick as close to that as necessary, modifying it with your doctor’s help as needed. You *can* be in WW if you’ve already delivered, and you’re nursing. You’ll have slightly different point goals, and you need more calcium, but it can be done.  That may help getting the weight off after the baby’s born.  While the baby’s in, tho, you need to make it as comfy as possible, and unfortunately for you, losing weight isn’t comfy for the baby. But hey, just think, when the kid’s a teenager, you can gripe about not only how long labor was, but how you had to suffer through not dieting and it’s all the kid’s fault Tay

A friend of mine was advised to go on maintenance while pregnant: that way she’d only put on baby weight and not fat.  It worked for her. She’d lost all the baby weight by a month after the birth, and breastfed successfully for more than 6 months while losing afterwards.  Ask the docs and your WW leader. — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant?

You can follow the ww program on your own while pregnant, but you can’t be an official member.  One thing you need to remember is that babies need certain *fats* to grow their brains properly, so make sure you keep some quality fats in your diet.  About 60% of the human brain is composed of fat, and you only get one chance to grow a brain, so pregnancy is not the time to be shortchanging yourself on your fat needs.  Please note I’m not saying you need to eat a *high* fat diet, but if you choose to eat a *low* fat diet, make sure to include a couple of tablespoons of Omega-3 and some Omega-6 oils each day for your baby’s brain.  A very low fat pregnancy will *not* harm your baby, but the baby’s brain will not reach it’s maximum potential under such a diet.   Here is a good website that explains the importance of fats in brain development  http://www.fi.edu/brain/fats.htm eggs.

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Weight Watchers current policies do not allow you to continue when you are pregnant.  But back in 1987, when I was a member, it was allowed.  I actually was on plan for about 11 months and lost about 40 lbs before I got pregnant.  I then asked my ob/gyn and he gave me a note to allow me to stay on WW while I was pregnant.  That was all they required back then.  I gained 28 lbs during that pregnancy and had a healthy baby girl weighing in at 8 lb 8 oz and nearly 3 weeks overdue.  It was actually funny as my meeting night was Wednesdays.  I had my daughter on Thursday evening.  I never missed a meeting and weighed in 22 lbs lighter the next week and the other 6 lbs was off the following week.  I continued on while breastfeeding.  Following the program for the nursing mothers. I feel WW policies now do not allow pregnant women to stay on program due to all the law suits that people are nuts about filing these days. If your doctor allows you to stay on program, do that.  Of course you need the extra milk servings and to increase your points just like you do when you are breastfeeding.  The main thing is to maintain  your weight while you are pregnant, not lose large amounts of weight.  As you can see from my results that is what happened.  I gained the recommended amount for  healthy pregnancy of 25-30 lbs.  You are not eating for two, you are a healthy diet to maintain the pregnancy and deliver a healthy baby. At this point, before you start trying, make sure you are getting a sufficient amount of folic acid.  That is crucial to having a healthy baby and it is needed even before you get pregnant. Debbie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant? — Mel ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy.

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thanks to everybody that replied you’ve all given me somewhere to start. I’m at ww now and have lost 20.5 now.  I’m doing the no count plan where i eat 3 healthy meals a day.  i think it may be still able to do that as i feel no count is not really a diet.  It stops you eating rubbish and makes me cook proper healthy meals as no processed food is allowed.  so when it happens i think i will take my no count plan to midwife and see what she says.  i think i may be all right with it just maybe need to add back proper milk etc.  i don’t think it’ll do a baby any harm if i snack on fruit all day as i do now instead of a bar of chocolate.  i used to now a girl who lost 4 stone while pregnant as she ate better while she was pregnant than when she wasn’t! — Mel 275.5/255/247.5 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Someone said it already but just make sure to eat some healthy fats !! that baby need a healthy brain ;o) — Will~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks to everybody that replied you’ve all given me somewhere to start. I’m at ww now and have lost 20.5 now.  I’m doing the no count plan where i eat 3 healthy meals a day.  i think it may be still able to do that as i feel no count is not really a diet.  It stops you eating rubbish and makes me cook proper healthy meals as no processed food is allowed.  so when it happens i think i will take my no count plan to midwife and see what she says.  i think i may be all right with it just maybe need to add back proper milk etc.  i don’t think it’ll do a baby any harm if i snack on fruit all day as i do now instead of a bar of chocolate.  i used to now a girl who lost 4 stone while pregnant as she ate better while she was pregnant than when she wasn’t! — Mel 275.5/255/247.5

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thanks to everybody that replied you’ve all given me somewhere to start. I’m at ww now and have lost 20.5 now.  I’m doing the no count plan where i eat 3 healthy meals a day.  i think it may be still able to do that as i feel no count is not really a diet.  It stops you eating rubbish and makes me cook proper healthy meals as no processed food is allowed.  so when it happens i think i will take my no count plan to midwife and see what she says.  i think i may be all right with it just maybe need to add back proper milk etc.  i don’t think it’ll do a baby any harm if i snack on fruit all day as i do now instead of a bar of chocolate.  i used to now a girl who lost 4 stone while pregnant as she ate better while she was pregnant than when she wasn’t!

Don’t worry about going back to full fat milk: skimmed milk has more protein and calcium per pint as there are no fat molecules to bulk it out! See if you can talk it through with a friendly midwife and/or dietitian before you get preggy, and then you know what you have to look forward to!  :) — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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The 25-30 lbs is only for women who are in a healthy weight range when they begin they’re pregnancy. I was about 30lbs overweight when I was pregnant and was advised to only gain about 12 lbs. http://www.babycenter.com has a pregnancy weight calculator if you want more info on acceptable weight gain. Sarah 198/198/132 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If your doctor allows you to stay on program, do that.  Of course you need the extra milk servings and to increase your points just like you do when you are breastfeeding.  The main thing is to maintain  your weight while you are pregnant, not lose large amounts of weight.  As you can see from my results that is what happened.  I gained the recommended amount for  healthy pregnancy of 25-30 lbs.  You are not eating for two, you are a healthy diet to maintain the pregnancy and deliver a healthy baby. hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant? — Mel ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb diet. Help, please. Is there one                simple print out I can at least get started with? Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that needs help? I am at a loss until I get some kind of help.    I know you’ll get some great advice here, but I would strongly suggest that you ask your doctor for a consultation with a nutritionist at your local hospital. They will have access to your most recent lab work, and your medications, which all should be considered when structuring a diet. good luck, Sas

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         #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb diet. Help, please. Is there one                simple print out I can at least get started with? Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that needs help? I am at a loss until I get some kind of help.

   I know you’ll get some great advice here, but I would strongly suggest that you ask your doctor for a consultation with a nutritionist at your local hospital. They will have access to your most recent lab work, and your medications, which all should be considered when structuring a diet. good luck, Sas

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Although there’s nothing wrong with South Beach, which is essentially low  carb without "evil" saturated fat, I personally would ignore the doctor’s  advice.  A low carb diet of any type is better than high carb, low fat.

Oh, I wouldn’t be too sure of that. It is very obvious that your cognitive abilities are severely limited, so the question is, were you born stupid or could it be as a result of your brain not being provided with sufficient carbs? As you can have no possible way of determining whether the woman’s Doctor prescribed the low fat/low carb diet purely for weight loss or as a part of a response to the various medical problems that she has, your implied suggestion that she ignore her Doctor’s advice would have to be the ultimate in blind, unreasoning, moronic, stupidity. You are a cretin! Go eat some carbs and restore some brain function. David — To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line. All other mail is automatically deleted.

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Although there’s nothing wrong with South Beach, which is essentially low   carb without "evil" saturated fat, I personally would ignore the doctor’s   advice.  A low carb diet of any type is better than high carb, low fat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had heard about so many doing well on it. I will also check it out. thanks for the quick reply. || Just spent a very scary week in the hospital, lungs almost shut down. || || OK, #1. I have had a rapid weight gain in the preceeding 4 years || that I just couldn’t seem to get off. ||               The lung doctors now tell me they are surprised I || hadn’t put it together, the lung infections, ||                 then the steroids I was given to bring me back to a || better breathing status. || ||         #2. I am limited in my exercise abilities since I now am on || oxygen for sleep and for anytime I ||                am active. And yes that means at work. || ||         #3. I am at this point so tired, so frustrated, so wannabee || doing somethin about the weight. || ||          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb || diet. Help, please. Is there one ||                simple print out I can at least get started with? || || Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that || needs help? I am at a loss until || I get some kind of help. If that is what your doctor recommends, Atkins and some of the other   plans may be too restrictive for you.  I would recommend you get a copy of the "South Beach Diet" and read it.  That is a relatively low carb as well   as low fat diet program.  My sister recently started it and says it is easy to follow; she’s lost quite a bit of weight fairly quickly on it.  Good   luck and God bless. — Peter Website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

– Bob in CT

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|| Just spent a very scary week in the hospital, lungs almost shut down. || || OK, #1. I have had a rapid weight gain in the preceeding 4 years || that I just couldn’t seem to get off. ||               The lung doctors now tell me they are surprised I || hadn’t put it together, the lung infections, ||                 then the steroids I was given to bring me back to a || better breathing status. || ||         #2. I am limited in my exercise abilities since I now am on || oxygen for sleep and for anytime I ||                am active. And yes that means at work. || ||         #3. I am at this point so tired, so frustrated, so wannabee || doing somethin about the weight. || ||          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb || diet. Help, please. Is there one ||                simple print out I can at least get started with? || || Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that || needs help? I am at a loss until || I get some kind of help. If that is what your doctor recommends, Atkins and some of the other plans may be too restrictive for you.  I would recommend you get a copy of the "South Beach Diet" and read it.  That is a relatively low carb as well as low fat diet program.  My sister recently started it and says it is easy to follow; she’s lost quite a bit of weight fairly quickly on it.  Good luck and God bless. — Peter Website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

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Just spent a very scary week in the hospital, lungs almost shut down. OK, #1. I have had a rapid weight gain in the preceeding 4 years that I just couldn’t seem to get off.               The lung doctors now tell me they are surprised I hadn’t put it together, the lung infections,                 then the steroids I was given to bring me back to a better breathing status.         #2. I am limited in my exercise abilities since I now am on oxygen for sleep and for anytime I                am active. And yes that means at work.         #3. I am at this point so tired, so frustrated, so wannabee doing somethin about the weight.          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb diet. Help, please. Is there one                simple print out I can at least get started with? Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that needs help? I am at a loss until I get some kind of help.

Response:

I had heard about so many doing well on it. I will also check it out. thanks for the quick reply.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – || Just spent a very scary week in the hospital, lungs almost shut down. || || OK, #1. I have had a rapid weight gain in the preceeding 4 years || that I just couldn’t seem to get off. ||               The lung doctors now tell me they are surprised I || hadn’t put it together, the lung infections, ||                 then the steroids I was given to bring me back to a || better breathing status. || ||         #2. I am limited in my exercise abilities since I now am on || oxygen for sleep and for anytime I ||                am active. And yes that means at work. || ||         #3. I am at this point so tired, so frustrated, so wannabee || doing somethin about the weight. || ||          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb || diet. Help, please. Is there one ||                simple print out I can at least get started with? || || Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that || needs help? I am at a loss until || I get some kind of help. If that is what your doctor recommends, Atkins and some of the other plans may be too restrictive for you.  I would recommend you get a copy of the "South Beach Diet" and read it.  That is a relatively low carb as well as low fat diet program.  My sister recently started it and says it is easy to follow; she’s lost quite a bit of weight fairly quickly on it.  Good luck and God bless. — Peter Website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

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         #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb diet.  Help, please. Is there one simple print out I can at least get started with?

The extreme for this type of diet is a PSMF:   http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/products/ebooks/RFL_intro.php You can google for PSMF (protein sparing modified fast) as well, but in a nutshell: * 0.8 to 1.2 g protein per lb "ideal" body weight * EFAs * LC Veggies * Nothing else You can make it less extreme by replacing "nothing else" with various amounts of other things.  Your doctor can (should!) advise you about how strict you should be.

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Question:

BTW, did you ever get the chocolate?

Yes, and I’m still trying to figure out what kind of thank-you package to send!  I’ve been busy with school but I’ll put something together soonish.

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BTW, did you ever get the chocolate? Yes, and I’m still trying to figure out what kind of thank-you package to send!  I’ve been busy with school but I’ll put something together soonish.

Don’t worry about it.  I was afraid it got lost (though I’ve not lost much   in the mail). — Bob in CT

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Quoting The Queen of Cans and Jars: BTW, did you ever get the chocolate? Yes,

[brev.] Ooooh, what kind of chocolate was it?  And did you like it? S., confirmed chocoholic

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I’m curious if there’s anyone out there who’s doing a low-carb and low-fat diet.  Sometimes it’s hard to balance the two and weigh loss doesnt seem to be as rapid as a strickly low carb diet, but i choose to moderate the amount of saturated fats i eat.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My problem is that I can’t find a place, other than here, that discusses the unique characteristics of the low carb way of life.  For instance, there are people here who bike on low carb.  If you go to a biking group, you’ll see that the vast majority of people believe that carbs and generally an extreme amount of carbs are necessary for biking. (Heck, I read a mag. that said you needed two to five grams of carbs for every pound of body weight — and not lean weight, either — to train for  running a half marathon.)  If I could find somewhere else that was  filtered (or even if we could filter all crossposts), and that discussed  this material, I’d gladly go there.  BTW, did you ever get the chocolate? You (or I should say we) could try to revive the Lowcarb Diet and Exercise List — check it out in the FAQ. It was a great source of information when I started out and when Lyle was in the process of doing research for his first book. There are still some very knowledgeable members on the list, but the traffic has really died down in the last few years. It was and is a fairly serious group and usually not a lot of trivial tit-n-tat sort of stuff. — Rudy – Remove the Z from my address to respond. "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"  -Emiliano Zapata Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

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I’m curious if there’s anyone out there who’s doing a low-carb and   low-fat diet.  Sometimes it’s hard to balance the two and weigh loss doesnt seem   to be as rapid as a strickly low carb diet, but i choose to moderate the   amount of saturated fats i eat.

Why would one do that (moderate saturated fat intake)? — Bob in CT

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My diet is going exceptionally well now, and my life commitment to it is unquestionable.

Leave if you wish; but please be careful of the line above.  I said roughly the same thing my first time around when my highest weight was 293.  C’mon back in a year and I hope you’re where you want to be, having gotten there and remained there.  If you slip (and from what I read, about 95% do) the hardest part of any new eating plan for you may be digesting the word "unquestionable". Best of luck Coff 325.5/276/185

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I find it utterly amusing that someone who lurks in a group feels the need to tell everyone they are leaving the group.

they only do it because they’re attention whores.  

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I find it utterly amusing that someone who lurks in a group feels the   need to tell everyone they are leaving the group. they only do it because they’re attention whores.

I told everyone I was leaving the group and I’m about as far from an   "attention whore" as you can get.  While I like some of the information   provided on this group, the amount of BS is very high. — Bob in CT

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I find it utterly amusing that someone who lurks in a group feels the need to tell everyone they are leaving the group. they only do it because they’re attention whores. I told everyone I was leaving the group and I’m about as far from an "attention whore" as you can get.  While I like some of the information provided on this group, the amount of BS is very high.

no, you’re not an attention whore.  you are a good guy who gets annoyed, and i don’t blame you for that.  you posted your goodbye out of frustration.  the group is basically shit anymore, and has been for quite a while.   but perdu’s post, and posts like it, are generally designed not to say "buh-bye" to the group but to poke at festering wounds and create drama. i’ve seen it a million times since i started reading usenet, and i expect if i keep reading i’ll see it a million more.  

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Yes, your own post is full of helpful information and support, so I can see how most posts would seem boring to you in contrast. — Cheri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  This place as almost all places on the Usenet deteriorated to the point of not worth participating.  I’ve deep lurked in the past two weeks or so, to see if I’m right, and well, I am. There are just some garbage that make a support group fall literally apart and not worth dealing with. It is fascinating, how the petri dish of useless filth keeps growing. The percentage of information and good people are outnumbered by the trash, and the flames. I want to thank you all for all the tools I had gotten here. My diet is going exceptionally well now, and my life commitment to it is unquestionable. It will be adjusted as we go along, to incorporate other helpful and beneficial ways of living and it seems the future is bright. At 245lbs now, and still losing, I have lost my 1st 40 pounds and a lot of pant sizes. I’m adjusting my life, carbs, calories, activities and everything for the new chapter. As for this group, I wish you all well, and I will be following the posts, heavily filtered out. I don’t see any more value on hanging out as a permanent part of it. I have no needs like sick little JC does, or the other needy and disruptive people who are certainly not here to support anyone but their own unhealthy needs. It is BORING. So I’ll be checking in here, but I’ll post sparingly, giving myself more time to look at other information that I may find helpful. Good luck all.                               Steve —    Best Regards,                 Steve Tout est per

Question:

I don’t like BMIs.  If I ever weighed what mine says I should for my height and age I would be skin and bones.  Was around that when I was younger and was actually told by doc to gain weight cause I was getting malnourished.  Stress makes me eat, but depression makes me not eat and I was depressed about a failed marriage and the baby blues.  Soon though I was back where I belongs and actually stayed at a good weight for about 10 years until my second son was born.  Then between losing my parents, hubby at the time and having second son, I put on a few p[ounds.  Most of my weight came when I moved from acreage to a 2 BR apartment and then more when I quit smoking.  I now have a house again and some land and am slowly losing what I gained when I quit smoking.  I did shoot up to over 300 in 2000 and through watching what I ate and changing how I ate I was back to 238 when I first joined WW in 2003. Then I stopped the online and tried it on my own and went back to 248. Started back hapazardly in Nov.2004 but really got going when I found this group and am now back to 235.  I do know that with summer coming and gardening starting I will get in more exercise this season.  Now if I can just figure out what to do in the winter so that I can keep the exercise going. Adele – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Said it very well Kate, now I don’t have to. Lucky I don’t have to be looking over my shoulder for that 200+ pounds I lost to hop back on, just have to manage the extra 5 or so I struggle with when holidays and stressors hit. The odd bump up and down is just part of life.  After losing 200, the odd 5 here or there is easier to work off than leave to start a party on your hips! The lovely thing with WW is that chocolate is built in for those of us who need the occasional burst of indulgence or comforting nibble. I have 20 to go to get to a reasonable margin inside the BMI for my height.  I could go a lot lower if I wanted, but I may not choose to. healthy is necessary, skinny isn’t!

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Said it very well Kate, now I don’t have to. Lucky I don’t have to be looking over my shoulder for that 200+ pounds I lost to hop back on, just have to manage the extra 5 or so I struggle with when holidays and stressors hit. — Lesanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re thinking of going on a diet to lose those extra pounds think again. Long-term weight control through dieting is near impossible, for the simple reason is that diets promote only short term solutions not long term. This is why we follow things like Weight Watchers:  NOT a diet, a way of eating healthily for the rest of your life, and getting regular exercise to go with it.  Slow and steady is our way, with re-education and support, not crash crazy dieting and idiotic harangues when we have a less than perfect day. It’s what this group is all about, mate.  Come and join us! — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls (50 lbs gone and counting… ) Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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Said it very well Kate, now I don’t have to. Lucky I don’t have to be looking over my shoulder for that 200+ pounds I lost to hop back on, just have to manage the extra 5 or so I struggle with when holidays and stressors hit.

The odd bump up and down is just part of life.  After losing 200, the odd 5 here or there is easier to work off than leave to start a party on your hips! The lovely thing with WW is that chocolate is built in for those of us who need the occasional burst of indulgence or comforting nibble. I have 20 to go to get to a reasonable margin inside the BMI for my height.  I could go a lot lower if I wanted, but I may not choose to. healthy is necessary, skinny isn’t! — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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If you’re thinking of going on a diet to lose those extra pounds think again. Long-term weight control through dieting is near impossible, for the simple reason is that diets promote only short term solutions not long term.

This is why we follow things like Weight Watchers:  NOT a diet, a way of eating healthily for the rest of your life, and getting regular exercise to go with it.  Slow and steady is our way, with re-education and support, not crash crazy dieting and idiotic harangues when we have a less than perfect day. It’s what this group is all about, mate.  Come and join us! — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls (50 lbs gone and counting… ) Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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If you’re thinking of going on a diet to lose those extra pounds think again. Long-term weight control through dieting is near impossible, for the simple reason is that diets promote only short term solutions not long term. After dieting you’ll certainly look lighter on the scales, but in most cases this is because you’ve dumped a few pounds of body fluid and muscle, and not because you’ve lost any significant amounts of body fat. One of the main reasons diets don’t work is because they send the body into starvation mode – a survival mechanism for times when humans faced periods of famine. Cutting back on our energy intake causes the body to lower its metabolic rate, which reduces its ability to burn fat. At the same time, hunger signals increase and we quickly start to crave high energy foods loaded with fats and sugars – the exact foods we are trying to do without! Alarmingly, research has shown that repeated dieting actually makes it harder to lose weight and easier to put it on. This is because when you dump the diet and return to normal eating habits, the drop in metabolic rate caused by the diet means that your old eating habits actually represent an excess in calories. Not only do you regain the fat stores just lost, but you may even gain a bit extra. "Five more reasons to stop dieting"   a.. Diets sap energy – Too little food means not enough      energy for physical activity.   a.. Diets lower your metabolism – Dieting causes your body      to conserve energy, making results harder to achieve.   a.. Diets are unhealthy – A cycle of rapid weight loss      followed by weight gain can lead to a loss of lean tissue      from your body and calcium from your bones. It also      strips the body of essential vitamins and minerals.   a.. Diets make food the enemy – Food provides nourishment      and comfort. Diets can make you afraid to eat, depriving      you of one of life’s pleasures.   a.. Diets cheat your confidence – Going from one failed diet to the next can leave you feeling depressed and create a cycle in which guilt battles against food. Regular physical activity and a healthy, balanced diet aren’t as glamorous as the quick fixes, but they do get better results. Start with one extra exercise session and one less fatty takeaway meal per week, and gradually work towards a lifelong plan for achieving your best weight. If you change the way you eat or exercise to lose weight, ask yourself this question. Can I see myself sticking to this routine for life? If the answer is "no" then its time to change what you’re doing. Any healthy weight loss plan should include the following:   a.. A wide variety of foods.   b.. Regular and enjoyable exercise.   c.. Enough filling foods to avoid constant hunger.   d.. At least 1200 calories a day.   e.. Flexibility for treat foods and social occasions.   f.. A realistic goal of your best weight (not necessarily your lowest weight.) Fact A realistic weight loss is around one to two pounds per week. Fast weight losses are not fat loss but glycogen and water.  If you lose weight quickly then you will probable return back to the weight at which you started as quickly as it was lost. Fiction   a.. Weight loss is quick and simple.   b.. Exercise is not necessary.   c.. Certain exercises can spot reduce.   d.. Carbohydrates (for example, bread, potatoes, rice,             and pasta) are fattening. So the way to lose body fat and maintain muscle is to have a food program for life and more energy output. Increase the amount of fruits, vegetables, non-fat dairy products, whole grains and beans that you eat. Eliminate calorie-dense foods such as cookies, sugary desserts, chips, fries, pizza, candies, crackers etc. Research on people who have successfully lost a lot of weight and kept it off long term, shows that the vast majority succeeded by consuming a low fat diet high in fibre coupled with strength training and cardiovascular activity. These are the basics you’ll need to aim for. A sound weight loss-eating plan should:   a.. Be nutritionally sound, providing all the nutrients you need.   b.. Never promise fast weight losses.   c.. Offer an eating plan based on real food.   d.. Allow you to eat out.   e.. Avoid expensive meal plans, products and supplements.   f.. Not avoid carbohydrate foods, e.g. bread, rice, pasta, cereals and potatoes.   a.. Make gradual dietary changes.   b.. Provide knowledge.   c.. Allow you to eat all foods   d.. Recommend physical activity. Fat calories are more fattening than carbohydrate calories. Your body can easily convert the fat you eat in food into body fat, so to lose weight you need to cut down on fats and foods that contain it. Consider the following steps to reduce fat in your diet.   a.. Use skimmed or skimmed milk in drinks, cooking and on cereals.   b.. Buy a non – stick frying pan.   c.. Buy a cheese slicer   d.. Cut the visible fat from meat.   e.. Eat very little pastry.   f.. Learn how to read a food label.   g.. Substitute low fat yoghurt for cream.   h.. Remove the skin from chicken and turkey.   i.. Eat fruit as snacks rather than eating chocolate and biscuits.   j.. Eat fewer burgers and sausages.   http://www.maximumfitness.com/news.php

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, so I may be imagining this.  Started LC and started losing weight. After a week or so I had felt a burning around all the stomach where there was extra fat.  This sensation stopped when I hit a plateau, about 3 weeks ago. The weight loss now continues steady, after I had raised fat intake and added extra workout. I had also dropped from 20 carbs to about 10. I also stopped Psyllium, which I had taken every night. Thinking I needed extra fiber. But I was worried it was part of the stall so I dropped it. (Was it perhaps?)  The burning around the waist and butt is back. And sure enough, the weight loss started registering again. Pound by pound.  Am I imagining this, or is this something people feel while the losing commences?  About 5 years or so ago, when I lost my first 40 pounds then kept it off, I don’t really remember this feeling.  Is it possibly just the skin trying to shrink? The feeling seems deeper inside.  Any comments please? ___     Best Regards,                  Steve Tout est per

Question:

Been awhile since I’ve posted here, so… Hi! I catch myself saying "I need to check in" and then I never do. Life has been busy as hell for me recently and I actually have to make time to get online. So here I am. As far as my WOE is going, I fallen off the wagon for about 10 weeks now, I got lazy and distracted and ended up putting about 16 lbs back on that I am re-determined to get off. I’ve got the old way of thinking back in my head and I know that I have to stop what I’m doing to myself or it will just make things worse. It started out with excuses in my exercise "too hot, too windy, too cold, too rainy, too busy, too tired, kids need me, hubby needs me, cat needs me" And then carried over into my eating, with excuses like "one more wont hurt, I will change it tomorrow. " A nibble here, a nibble there turns into a full snack, or a overblown meal or simply "screw it, I’m gonna enjoy myself" The bad stuff is back The acid reflex The feeling crappy The skin issues I’ve had most of my life which went away with carb control The sleep patterns being messed up And of course, the weight. I found myself quitting fitday.com all together, I don’t think I’ve posted a full day there in 2.5 months. I feel like I’m lying to myself half the time. I haven’t touched my bike or treadmill in ages. I am truly pissed off at myself for letting this happen, which is catch22 as most of us know. I am scared of what has been happening to me and I know how I can lie to myself and make excuses. I guess I have forgotten how GOOD I felt when the lb’s were dropping off me without as much work as I thought it would be in the beginning. I can’t even cram myself into my jeans I was in at Christmas, which truly makes me mad at myself. I feel awful. I want to blame everything except me, but I know in my heart of hearts that no one can change me (good or bad) but me. The compliments from friends and family are gone, and the knowing looks they pass between themselves when they think I am not seeing them are back, as if to say ‘Suz is getting up there again’ – Grrr. I feel like such a failure. I made some half ass lame attempt to buy the book that ‘Gwendal’ used to recommend to me called Fattitudes and they didn’t have it at Barnes and Noble – and so I let the idea of buying it go the moment they said they didn’t have it. Not that I would have read it anyhow. What is it in our psychological makeup that makes a person do this to themselves, to get off track, to unintentionally sabotage their health and well being? I guess I won’t ever figure that out. So, I am going to spend the remainder of today reviewing my old posts here, and catching up on yall,  revamping fitday.com so that it is current for me. Take some time to do some meal planning that works for both me and my family. I am going to go for a walk this afternoon at the track and do some thinking. Tonight when I get home I am going to weigh/measure and begin anew. I have the tools, I simply have to use them – I am going to keep telling that to myself. Let me serve as a lesson to all of us out there that thought we had "mastered" the art of getting fit and healthy. Thanks Susan 280/184/140

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Hey Susan, Welcome to the club.  (I’m mainly a lurker here, BTW.  You’ve probably never seen me.)  But anyway, I definitely feel your pain … I’ve been a yo-yo dieter since I was 22 (about 13 years ago).  I lost 50 lbs. during the fall of 2002, but gained it back plus more.  I started a low fat diet at the first of the year and have been doing great. Like you, I can’t figure out why I let myself get into this shape.  I knew what I was doing when I was doing it.  Why didn’t I stop myself??  I’ve taken off 30 lbs. since January, but jeez, I have 100 more to go. Good luck to you. -G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been awhile since I’ve posted here, so… Hi! I catch myself saying "I need to check in" and then I never do. Life has been busy as hell for me recently and I actually have to make time to get online. So here I am. As far as my WOE is going, I fallen off the wagon for about 10 weeks now, I got lazy and distracted and ended up putting about 16 lbs back on that I am re-determined to get off. I’ve got the old way of thinking back in my head and I know that I have to stop what I’m doing to myself or it will just make things worse. It started out with excuses in my exercise "too hot, too windy, too cold, too rainy, too busy, too tired, kids need me, hubby needs me, cat needs me" And then carried over into my eating, with excuses like "one more wont hurt, I will change it tomorrow. " A nibble here, a nibble there turns into a full snack, or a overblown meal or simply "screw it, I’m gonna enjoy myself" The bad stuff is back The acid reflex The feeling crappy The skin issues I’ve had most of my life which went away with carb control The sleep patterns being messed up And of course, the weight. I found myself quitting fitday.com all together, I don’t think I’ve posted a full day there in 2.5 months. I feel like I’m lying to myself half the time. I haven’t touched my bike or treadmill in ages. I am truly pissed off at myself for letting this happen, which is catch22 as most of us know. I am scared of what has been happening to me and I know how I can lie to myself and make excuses. I guess I have forgotten how GOOD I felt when the lb’s were dropping off me without as much work as I thought it would be in the beginning. I can’t even cram myself into my jeans I was in at Christmas, which truly makes me mad at myself. I feel awful. I want to blame everything except me, but I know in my heart of hearts that no one can change me (good or bad) but me. The compliments from friends and family are gone, and the knowing looks they pass between themselves when they think I am not seeing them are back, as if to say ‘Suz is getting up there again’ – Grrr. I feel like such a failure. I made some half ass lame attempt to buy the book that ‘Gwendal’ used to recommend to me called Fattitudes and they didn’t have it at Barnes and Noble – and so I let the idea of buying it go the moment they said they didn’t have it. Not that I would have read it anyhow. What is it in our psychological makeup that makes a person do this to themselves, to get off track, to unintentionally sabotage their health and well being? I guess I won’t ever figure that out. So, I am going to spend the remainder of today reviewing my old posts here, and catching up on yall,  revamping fitday.com so that it is current for me. Take some time to do some meal planning that works for both me and my family. I am going to go for a walk this afternoon at the track and do some thinking. Tonight when I get home I am going to weigh/measure and begin anew. I have the tools, I simply have to use them – I am going to keep telling that to myself. Let me serve as a lesson to all of us out there that thought we had "mastered" the art of getting fit and healthy.

Oh Susan, I’m so sorry this has happened to you!  I have experienced each and every one of the emotions and behaviours that you have described here, to the extent that I found it painful to read what you’ve written. I’m not going to say you’ll get back on track, and it’ll all be OK because I can feel by the way you’ve written this that this isn’t what’s going to happen easily for you just now.  I have experience of this sort of losing of motivation leading to putting back all the weight.  I’ve been through it – all the congratulations, feeling good, etc. and then suddenly everyone carefully not mentioning anything about your weight or how you look, and gradually not caring about all the good things I was doing for my body and my health. I’ve also found that after I’ve felt better for a while I forget how bad "the bad stuff" was and I can kid myself that it can’t have been all that bad and it’s OK if I just go back to overeating a bit, and so on…. But you know that there’s a real danger of the gaining continuing and that you have to halt it somehow.   I’m not going to say don’t worry, you won’t put it all back, because I know it is all too easy to do just that.  Have you tried just attempting to stand still, calm down, and accept the 16 lbs just for the moment and concentrate on not gaining any more, but not feeling panicky about the fact that you must lose?  If you could somehow do this until your frame of mind is ready to tackle weight loss, perhaps you could limit the damage this way. We all know here that you’re capable of great strength of purpose, and I do believe you’ll get back to where you are, but IMO putting too much pressure on yourself if you’re not ready could end up leading to more gain. I can only write from my own experience – just ignore everything I’ve said if you can’t relate to it yourself!   I hope you’ll decide to post here a bit, now you’ve told us what has happened, and perhaps we can offer a bit of support. janice

Response:

Hey Susan, Welcome to the club.  (I’m mainly a lurker here, BTW.  You’ve probably never seen me.)  But anyway, I definitely feel your pain … I’ve been a yo-yo dieter since I was 22 (about 13 years ago).  I lost 50 lbs. during the fall of 2002, but gained it back plus more.  I started a low fat diet at the first of the year and have been doing great. Like you, I can’t figure out why I let myself get into this shape.  I knew what I was doing when I was doing it.  Why didn’t I stop myself??  I’ve taken off 30 lbs. since January, but jeez, I have 100 more to go. Good luck to you. -G.

Hi, I am not a yo-yo dieter, or at least I don’t think I was, I had never attempted any eating reform or weightloss plan before I started my WOE about a year and a half ago. I had a good solid workable plan that DID work. I am still about 100 lbs lighter than I was when I started. I just am struggling to find out/remember what clicked that got me back into old habits. I hope that this doesn’t start me on a path of "yo-yo dieting". June of 2005 will be the anniversary of my epiphany that started my changes. Again, I am struggling to remember what exactly triggered that. I guess if I think about it I am still very fortunate that I have 100lbs off of me and I simply need to get back into that frame of mind. But I can see myself in self destruct mode very easy if I let it happen, and to be honest, it WAS/is happening now. I gotta get in control again is all(easier said than done) Good luck with your progress Thanks for the well wishes  Susan 280/184/140 Ig, for some reason my outlook express took your reply to my first post off the server, dunno.. but anyhow.. I haven’t had any bloodwork done, but will schedule something for this week, thanks for the reminder.

Response:

Hi janice, it is good to see you are still as supportive as ever I have missed a.s.d – for sure. It’s very hard to force yourself to read everyone’s good news on here on a daily basis if you yourself are not making good progress. I have to stop that thinking and realize that each and every one of us here have faced similar struggles, maybe not posted them, but we all have the same demons. I think. Maybe everyone is perfect except me lol. As far as where to start. I think that you are correct in starting at simply maintaining where I am right now and re developing my WOE that works for me again. I am going to have to do some critical thinking and disection of my lifestyle and narrow it down to some specifics. Which is not always easy. Being realistically critical of myself and producing workable solutions is not my strong point, obviously. Or I wouldn’t be in the shape that I am in. I also need to calm down a bit and not be so hard on myself, I screwed up. Big deal, fix it and move on, right? The other thing I see happening is I let this spiral until there seems to be alot I have to fix, which in truth is over dramatizing things, another typical thing for me to do to myself – making mountains out of molehills. I also have to remember (sometimes on an hour by hour basis) that only I can do this, good or bad, its ME, MY choices that make the difference and stop blaming MY failures on outside persons/reasons. Some examples of those are I’ve got a huge family to feed and have to cook huge meals. There is nothing "good" or healthy near my work for lunch. I don’t "deserve" those breakfast tacos with sausage/potato/egg/cheese/tortilla that I have for breakfast – I deserve to be good to myself by fueling my body with nutrient dense healthy portions. Right? Right. And of course that list goes on and on. I need to be more assertive in making my food/exercise decisions and quit making excuses to why I "can’t" do things.  I have to be proactive about my goals and what I want to achieve, and I have to not allow events or opinions to sway me from that path. Like I said, I have the tools to do this and do it the right way, I simply have to USE them. If I were still food/exercise ignorant, I could almost explain why this has happened to me. But I am not, I have learned SO much in the last 2 years when I was doing so well that I do not have ignorance as an excuse any longer. So, for me.. it’s take a deep breath. Look at what I have fallen into, pick up the pieces and put it all back together again, then once that is done, focus on making headway. Thanks for your encouragement janice Susan 280/184/140

Response:

Been awhile since I’ve posted here, so… Hi! So, I am going to spend the remainder of today reviewing my old posts here, and catching up on yall,  revamping fitday.com so that it is current for me. Take some time to do some meal planning that works for both me and my family. I am going to go for a walk this afternoon at the track and do some thinking. Tonight when I get home I am going to weigh/measure and begin anew. I have the tools, I simply have to use them – I am going to keep telling that to myself. Let me serve as a lesson to all of us out there that thought we had "mastered" the art of getting fit and healthy.

Many people who turn out successful in the long run have failures along the way (it was in the book Thin for Life).  It’s good to take some time and think about what went wrong and how you can change it but also realize what went right – you decided to do something about it after a small % of gain rather than seeing the gain and giving up. You aren’t alone.  I regained some of the weight I lost too, but kept off 100+ lbs from my highest weight.  I’m working on the rest but also realizing that this is the first time I haven’t regained it all and then some in 25+ years of attempts. It’s good to see you back and going back to things that worked for you in the past.  I don’t really think we ever get this "mastered" but supposedly it will get easier in the long run.  You and I came into this group around the same time but I’m using a different name now.  It won’t take long to figure out who I am. BTW, Fattitudes is a good book especially for the mental stuff.  Two other good ones are Thin for Life and Passing for Thin if you ever get in a book reading mood. — the vbchick email goes to vbchick

Response:

Susan, I feel your pain and understand how these things happen. I see people scarfing down cookies or getting whipped cream on their iced lattes and I want to be like them – able to eat without thinking about calories. My suggestion is try to do things one at a time. Maybe start back with fitday no matter how ugly your intake. Or resume exercising. I find that when I consistently exercise, I have more motivation to stick with my eating plan. You can get back on track. As always, YMMV. Kasey 365/213/190

Response:

Many people who turn out successful in the long run have failures along the way (it was in the book Thin for Life).  It’s good to take some time and think about what went wrong and how you can change it but also realize what went right – you decided to do something about it after a small % of gain rather than seeing the gain and giving up. You aren’t alone.  I regained some of the weight I lost too, but kept off 100+ lbs from my highest weight.  I’m working on the rest but also realizing that this is the first time I haven’t regained it all and then some in 25+ years of attempts.

I found this bit in Thin for Life encouraging, too, Nunya.  Your history sounds a bit like mine except that I’ve been at it for over 40 years:( I never give up,  and treat each new attempt like my first, but of course somewhere along the line the one that really succeeds for good will be the one where you don’t do exactly what you did before.   Since my last major weight loss of around 70lbs  (the total I needed to lose is around 100) I’ve spent the last 3 years at below 200 lbs despite regaining and relosing the last 30 or so pounds several times during that period.  I regard this as some sort of progress, and am currently well on track again. We’ll get there in the end! janice

Response:

Hi Susan, I have faced those same demons.  A few years ago I lost nearly 40 lbs. Then, I slowly let my bad habits and excuses creep back in and before I knew it I had regained almost all of it.  I still don’t really know why I let myself trip up.  I have no one to blame, but myself.  I refuse to let it keep me down though.  I kicked myself in the butt and now I’m trudging on. This go ’round I find it much easier.  Easier in the sense that I feel I can live with my WOE forever.  I’ve only been doing this for 2 months now, but I feel confident that this WOE works for me. You seem to have a very clear idea of what you did and what you now have to do.  I think you are on the right road Susan, you just hit a little bump on the way.  I see you getting up, dusting yourself off and marching on. Congrats to you for not giving up! Willow Willow Darcy Shaw from Atlantic Canada Current Loss: -18 lbs Mini Goal: lose 25 lbs by 1st week May Ultimate Goal: lose 70 lbs

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi janice, it is good to see you are still as supportive as ever I have missed a.s.d – for sure. It’s very hard to force yourself to read everyone’s good news on here on a daily basis if you yourself are not making good progress. I have to stop that thinking and realize that each and every one of us here have faced similar struggles, maybe not posted them, but we all have the same demons. I think. Maybe everyone is perfect except me lol. As far as where to start. I think that you are correct in starting at simply maintaining where I am right now and re developing my WOE that works for me again. I am going to have to do some critical thinking and disection of my lifestyle and narrow it down to some specifics. Which is not always easy. Being realistically critical of myself and producing workable solutions is not my strong point, obviously. Or I wouldn’t be in the shape that I am in. I also need to calm down a bit and not be so hard on myself, I screwed up. Big deal, fix it and move on, right? The other thing I see happening is I let this spiral until there seems to be alot I have to fix, which in truth is over dramatizing things, another typical thing for me to do to myself – making mountains out of molehills. I also have to remember (sometimes on an hour by hour basis) that only I can do this, good or bad, its ME, MY choices that make the difference and stop blaming MY failures on outside persons/reasons. Some examples of those are I’ve got a huge family to feed and have to cook huge meals. There is nothing "good" or healthy near my work for lunch. I don’t "deserve" those breakfast tacos with sausage/potato/egg/cheese/tortilla that I have for breakfast – I deserve to be good to myself by fueling my body with nutrient dense healthy portions. Right? Right. And of course that list goes on and on. I need to be more assertive in making my food/exercise decisions and quit making excuses to why I "can’t" do things.  I have to be proactive about my goals and what I want to achieve, and I have to not allow events or opinions to sway me from that path. Like I said, I have the tools to do this and do it the right way, I simply have to USE them. If I were still food/exercise ignorant, I could almost explain why this has happened to me. But I am not, I have learned SO much in the last 2 years when I was doing so well that I do not have ignorance as an excuse any longer. So, for me.. it’s take a deep breath. Look at what I have fallen into, pick up the pieces and put it all back together again, then once that is done, focus on making headway. Thanks for your encouragement janice Susan 280/184/140

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Janice, I’ve gained OVER & OVER but I’m below 190 always ,since one year ago! I’ve gained recently but I’m going to win this!!!! YOU WILL WIN ALSO:) I always read your posts!!!!! glo

Response:

You and I came into this group around the same time but I’m using a different name now. I do wish your new name didn’t make me think of "Dubya"

When you put it like that, so do I! — the vbchick email goes to vbchick

Response:

Susan, I feel your pain and understand how these things happen. I see people scarfing down cookies or getting whipped cream on their iced lattes and I want to be like them – able to eat without thinking about calories.

Well, most people I see doing this are fat .  Or else they’re young and are probably going to be fat when they’re older.  So I don’t want to be like them.   It’s the slim person who takes one cookie and happily enjoys it that I want to be like.  And I expect that that person is often conscious of — if not calories — at least eating moderately. A case in point — the audit team I was on last week.  There were 10 of us; 7 were non-trivially overweight.  The office staff brought in doughnuts and pastries every morning.  The 3 of us who were fit didn’t eat any; the others did.  One of the other fit people is an extremely athletic man of about 40 who ran 7 miles on his treadmill every morning before work (in under an hour!).  He eats hearty meals, but not junk.  The other healthy-eating man is 50ish and had a heart attack scare a few years ago.  He walked 2 miles on the motel treadmill every morning before work.  I ran or walked outdoors at lunchtime when I could.  None of the other people exercised.  I brought my lunch every day.  The others ordered out from a sandwich, but these two men ordered salads or plain sandwiches; the others had things like Rueben sandwiches and fries.  For afternoon snacks, I brought apples, the 40ish guy had another sandwich, and the 50ish guy brought nuts and carrot sticks.  The 7 other folks didn’t seem to snack in the afternoon — just went out for large dinners or fast food later in the evening. I was not jealous of the 7 other folks . Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Response:

Welcome back, Susan.  I bet just writing this message will be a big help in getting you back on track, as it so clearly articulates all that you don’t like about what’s happened, and what you know you need to do to turn things around.  You can do it!  We’re here for you! Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Response:

Hey Susan, I’m feeling like you are feeling but I’ve gained aout 5 or 6 lbs. Gosh!! I’d better get myslf in gear NOW! I’m just slippng and I was not LOOKING at me! It’s like I’m hiding from me but I’m NOT REALLY able to hide at all! I’m reading you here and SEEING ME:( You ARE STRONG as you face this! I’ll do this too! Thanks sooooo much for posting just when I needed your words!! glo

Response:

You and I came into this group around the same time but I’m using a different name now.  

I do wish your new name didn’t make me think of "Dubya" Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been awhile since I’ve posted here, so… Hi! I catch myself saying "I need to check in" and then I never do. Life has been busy as hell for me recently and I actually have to make time to get online. So here I am. As far as my WOE is going, I fallen off the wagon for about 10 weeks now, I got lazy and distracted and ended up putting about 16 lbs back on that I am re-determined to get off. I’ve got the old way of thinking back in my head and I know that I have to stop what I’m doing to myself or it will just make things worse. It started out with excuses in my exercise "too hot, too windy, too cold, too rainy, too busy, too tired, kids need me, hubby needs me, cat needs me" And then carried over into my eating, with excuses like "one more wont hurt, I will change it tomorrow. " A nibble here, a nibble there turns into a full snack, or a overblown meal or simply "screw it, I’m gonna enjoy myself" The bad stuff is back The acid reflex The feeling crappy The skin issues I’ve had most of my life which went away with carb control The sleep patterns being messed up And of course, the weight. I found myself quitting fitday.com all together, I don’t think I’ve posted a full day there in 2.5 months. I feel like I’m lying to myself half the time. I haven’t touched my bike or treadmill in ages. I am truly pissed off at myself for letting this happen, which is catch22 as most of us know. I am scared of what has been happening to me and I know how I can lie to myself and make excuses. I guess I have forgotten how GOOD I felt when the lb’s were dropping off me without as much work as I thought it would be in the beginning. I can’t even cram myself into my jeans I was in at Christmas, which truly makes me mad at myself. I feel awful. I want to blame everything except me, but I know in my heart of hearts that no one can change me (good or bad) but me. The compliments from friends and family are gone, and the knowing looks they pass between themselves when they think I am not seeing them are back, as if to say ‘Suz is getting up there again’ – Grrr. I feel like such a failure. I made some half ass lame attempt to buy the book that ‘Gwendal’ used to recommend to me called Fattitudes and they didn’t have it at Barnes and Noble – and so I let the idea of buying it go the moment they said they didn’t have it. Not that I would have read it anyhow. What is it in our psychological makeup that makes a person do this to themselves, to get off track, to unintentionally sabotage their health and well being? I guess I won’t ever figure that out. So, I am going to spend the remainder of today reviewing my old posts here, and catching up on yall,  revamping fitday.com so that it is current for me. Take some time to do some meal planning that works for both me and my family. I am going to go for a walk this afternoon at the track and do some thinking. Tonight when I get home I am going to weigh/measure and begin anew. I have the tools, I simply have to use them – I am going to keep telling that to myself. Let me serve as a lesson to all of us out there that thought we had "mastered" the art of getting fit and healthy. Thanks Susan 280/184/140

Boy can I relate to this email.  I’ve gotten thin before but never maintained it.  I’m currently working my way down again, and doing it very slowly.  In fact, I’ve taken since January of 2001 to get to where I am now.  I’ve gone up 10lbs for a period of 8 or 9 months when I just stopped exercising and gave myself fast food for breakfast. However, with the help of a couple exercise buddies, lurking and occasionally posting here, and lately, sessions with a nutritionist, I’ve been able to start back down.  My nutritionist, like most of the other folks on this page, emphasizes positive efforts over negative. She recommends we take a free day each week and just eat whatever foods we like, but keep in mind that moderation is a good concept.  In other words, buy a slice of cake at the bakery (if you can) instead of the whole one; or bribe 31 flavors to make you a pint-sized banana split instead of their regular size.  It was the breakfast taco you mentioned that got to me because that was exactly my downfall.  I love breakfast meats and tortillas and eggs.  So now I just make it myself with turkey bacon and corn tortillas, eggbeaters and baked potato chunks crisped in a little evoo (mario bartoli is my favorite chef!). Take care of yourself, you sound like a very good person!

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Janice, I’ve gained OVER & OVER but I’m below 190 always ,since one year ago! I’ve gained recently but I’m going to win this!!!! YOU WILL WIN ALSO:) I always read your posts!!!!! glo

I read yours too, glo.  And well done on staying below 190 all that time. janice                        

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Question:

Hi, Ive been reading the forums for a while and I hope you guys can help or give me some advice please. I started dieting 2 years ago, since i was overweight and having problems with high blood pressure, following a low fat diet approach and walking for 20 – 30 mins each day.,and taking tablets for the blood pressure.  Initially i lost 2 1/2 stones in 6 months and i was very pleased.   However things started to plateau and i put a stone or so back on again. I have recently started my diet again in earnest, although i never really stopped, just became less ‘disciplined’, and i attend a gym 3 times a week, doing mostly aerobic workouts, treadmill and cycle.   However after nearly 4 months my weight has not changed at all – it hasnt gone up (thank goodness) but hasnt gone down at all either.  Im really starting to wonder whats going on! Hope someone might have some ideas! — cramar

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I have recently started my diet again in earnest, There is only one reason for being on a long term plateau or regaining weight. It is eating too much in relation to energy spent.

Not the only reason, but definitely the most predominant one. If by "starting my diet again in earnest" means the OP is restricting calories in a similar way as when they lost weight, they should see a doctor to rule out any medical condition that may be causing the failure to lose weight. — Matthew 185/177/160 To reply by e-mail, heat things up a bit.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently started my diet again in earnest, There is only one reason for being on a long term plateau or regaining weight. It is eating too much in relation to energy spent. Not the only reason, but definitely the most predominant one. If by "starting my diet again in earnest" means the OP is restricting calories in a similar way as when they lost weight, they should see a doctor to rule out any medical condition that may be causing the failure to lose weight. — You have an alternative explanation to the law of thermodynamics?

Of course not. But do consider that Ig posted in the part I snipped, "You are not losing because you eat too much." An individuals BMR could be affected by a number of medical conditions and I am only saying one should consider both sides said law of thermodynamics. Calorie restriction even to the point of malnutrition may not result in successful weight loss for the OP. Of course this usenet poster in a far away land can hardly make that diagnosis, but I bet their doctor can.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently started my diet again in earnest, There is only one reason for being on a long term plateau or regaining weight. It is eating too much in relation to energy spent. Not the only reason, but definitely the most predominant one. If by "starting my diet again in earnest" means the OP is restricting calories in a similar way as when they lost weight, they should see a doctor to rule out any medical condition that may be causing the failure to lose weight. —

You have an alternative explanation to the law of thermodynamics? — Dr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick

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You are not losing because you eat too much.

I have to agree with Ig here. Exercise matters and is worthwhile but food intake is the main game. Cut it back and be dramatic about cutting it back and you’ll see your numbers move. A personal example – I sometimes visit my father and eat with him. We are about the same height. He’ll eat 4 pieces of bread, I’ll eat two. He’ll eat 2 cookies, I’ll eat one. At those times I’m getting half the calories he is. Currently I’m losing body fat, he’s gaining. Think of your own ways to cut back.

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I know that muscle weighs more than fat. Have you  notices yur chape changing at least?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Ive been reading the forums for a while and I hope you guys can help or give me some advice please. I started dieting 2 years ago, since i was overweight and having problems with high blood pressure, following a low fat diet approach and walking for 20 – 30 mins each day.,and taking tablets for the blood pressure.  Initially i lost 2 1/2 stones in 6 months and i was very pleased.   However things started to plateau and i put a stone or so back on again. I have recently started my diet again in earnest, although i never really stopped, just became less ‘disciplined’, and i attend a gym 3 times a week, doing mostly aerobic workouts, treadmill and cycle. However after nearly 4 months my weight has not changed at all – it hasnt gone up (thank goodness) but hasnt gone down at all either.  Im really starting to wonder whats going on! Hope someone might have some ideas! — cramar

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently started my diet again in earnest, There is only one reason for being on a long term plateau or regaining weight. It is eating too much in relation to energy spent. Not the only reason, but definitely the most predominant one. If by "starting my diet again in earnest" means the OP is restricting calories in a similar way as when they lost weight, they should see a doctor to rule out any medical condition that may be causing the failure to lose weight. — You have an alternative explanation to the law of thermodynamics? Of course not. But do consider that Ig posted in the part I snipped, "You are not losing because you eat too much." An individuals BMR could be affected by a number of medical conditions and I am only saying one should consider both sides said law of thermodynamics. Calorie restriction even to the point of malnutrition may not result in successful weight loss for the OP. Of course this usenet poster in a far away land can hardly make that diagnosis, but I bet their doctor can.

Fair enough. I agree. I was just checking.  The odds are greatly in favor of dietary problems (as you pointed out).  I just think it can (or at least SHOULD) be assumed that unless a poster is asking about a medical problems, that they are getting proper medical treatment as needed–if they aren’t, suggesting so is likely to fall on deaf ears. Yes, you did say that it was the most likely excessive calories in, I am not arguing here (really, I am not , nor am I trying to quibble.  I just wanted to make sure you were on the up and up, and you seem to be (like I am the judge of everyone). I do get tired of the media dragging out the old (she has a glandular problem) when talking about someone’s excessive weight. It is a serious and real eye-opener when most people realize just how little they need to eat to maintain a healthy weight.  And too often doctors are willing to let someone remain delusional, because it is too much effort to straighten them out.  So people shuffle along blissful in the thought that it is not their fault that they are fat, the have a "medical problem." Since the norm (due to evolution) is that our bodies WANT to put on fat, and HATE to give it up, that means a huge majority to people have a hard time maintain a healthy weight in world of ready and calorie rich food; and only a very small minority have an easy time with it.  Such is life, I know nothing of the alternative (John Edwards may think he does) so I am trying to stay here for as long as I can. That means sucking it up, and carrying on! (though I do miss peanut butter — Dr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick

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Well, funnily enough, last time i lost weight i was just walking as exercise, however because of the fact it is winter here and it was getting harder and harder to motivate myself to go out in the cold (coward! i hear u cry!) i decided to join a gym and get the advice of a trainer.   Although most of my workout is aerobic, i have been advised to do some resistance work to improve muscle strenght in my legs and upper body, and i have noticed a lot more defintion and muscle tone in my upper and lower legs, and upper body. My food consumption is the same, if not less now , due to frustration, than during my previous efforts 18 months or so ago. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know that muscle weighs more than fat. Have you  notices yur chape changing at least? Hi, Ive been reading the forums for a while and I hope you guys can help or give me some advice please. I started dieting 2 years ago, since i was overweight and having problems with high blood pressure, following a low fat diet approach and walking for 20 – 30 mins each day.,and taking tablets for the blood pressure.  Initially i lost 2 1/2 stones in 6 months and i was very pleased.   However things started to plateau and i put a stone or so back on again. I have recently started my diet again in earnest, although i never really stopped, just became less ‘disciplined’, and i attend a gym 3 times a week, doing mostly aerobic workouts, treadmill and cycle. However after nearly 4 months my weight has not changed at all – it hasnt gone up (thank goodness) but hasnt gone down at all either.  Im really starting to wonder whats going on! Hope someone might have some ideas! — cramar-

– cramar

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OK I have been reprimanded before on the wording of the accepted (but not true) statement of ‘muscle weights more than fat’ so I will pass it on here. Muscle doesnt WEIGH more than fat, but it does take up less space. A pound of fat and a pound of muscle WEIGH the same, a pound each. But surely it is simply shorthand for "the same volume of muscle weighs more than the same volume of fat".  In the same way as one might ordinarily say "lead weighs more than feathers".

You’re absolutely right, everything WEIGHS the same: a pound will always be a pound, however, you tend to say something weighs less when it has a lower weight-to-volume ratio. But it’s not very likely that the OP has increased muscle mass, they always say weight loss & muscle gain are almost mutually exclusive.

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I know that muscle weighs more than fat. Have you notices yur chape changing at least? OK I have been reprimanded before on the wording of the accepted (but not true) statement of ‘muscle weights more than fat’ so I will pass it on here. Muscle doesnt WEIGH more than fat, but it does take up less space. A pound of fat and a pound of muscle WEIGH the same, a pound each.

But surely it is simply shorthand for "the same volume of muscle weighs more than the same volume of fat".  In the same way as one might ordinarily say "lead weighs more than feathers". Rachael 176/123/(119-124)

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Body recomposition is a slow process and I have hard times believing claims of individuals who obviously exercise very lightly, that their total sum "dimensions" changes substantially whereas their scale weight does not. These claims would amount to multiple pounds of muscle gained, an impossibility. It is all too easy to make a mistake in measuring "dimensions" by tightening measuring tape around soft fat.

I can think of an explanation for this: as you lose fat, the fatty tissue becomes softer & you are, indeed, able to tighten further than you did before, thus recording lower measurements. ‘Wishful thinking’ may well play a role here…

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I know that muscle weighs more than fat. Have you notices yur chape changing at least?

OK I have been reprimanded before on the wording of the accepted (but not true) statement of ‘muscle weights more than fat’ so I will pass it on here. Muscle doesnt WEIGH more than fat, but it does take up less space. A pound of fat and a pound of muscle WEIGH the same, a pound each. But the muscle will be like 1/3 the size of the fat – its the DENSITY that differs. If someone is losing inches (bodyfat) and gaining some muscle, they could possibly weigh the same (the scale lies) yet be inches all around smaller. Thats why, to the OP, tape measuring yourself over relying on the scale is the way to really ’see’ the changes. Knowing your bodyfat percentage would be even better. <<joni *a pic of difference btwb fat and muscle – bottom of page: http://www.geocities.com/jgrrl2/math.html

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I agree, except that I do not think that he needs to be drmatic (radical) about cutting calories. 1,000 per day is all he needs to cut to get excellent results. Cutting 1000 cal per day does sound dramatic to me!

It’s dramatic if your intake is 2000 or less per day but if you’re eating 3000+ it becomes much less dramatic However I do agree with you that a 1000 cal per day *cut in intake* is dramatic.  OTOH a 1000 cal/day *deficit* is not as difficult for a larger person to accomplish since all you’d need to do is cut 500 cal from intake and increase your output by 500 cal. I simply meant that he might need to consciously take his eating down a level. All the factors in our biology and society conspire to act like an incoming tide in pushing our BMI’s up over the years. To stem this in yourself I believe you need to act aggressively. It means stepping out of ‘normal’ behaviour. But normal depends on who it is you hang with. If you want to be super skinny then hang out with models! My ideal body type is like that of a sprinter or boxer. Unfortunately I don’t know any. Most of my co-workers are overweight and can’t understand why I don’t always want to go in with them in Friday lunch pizza. ‘Don’t you like pizza?’

Sounds like what Gwendal always says about learning to live like a slender person and having the body follow along.  The group of people I socialized with changed completely during my weight loss phase from the bar/fish fry crowd to a more athletic/active group.  Even now when I meet new people, if it turns out they don’t work out or like to do a lot of outdoors activities the relationships go nowhere. I still hang out in the bar once a week but now it’s an hour with my volleyball team after the games and I limit myself to one beer and maybe will split a sandwich with someone for dinner.  This is compared to the hours each Friday night I used to spend sitting around drinking pitchers and splitting many orders of cheese curds and chicken wings with my sedentary friends. Jenn

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I lost a lot of fat, and I was able to lift more & more weight, so I must have gained muscle, no? Not necessarily, although hypertrophy *can* certainly result in increased strength.  Increases in strength are frequently due to neurological adaptations.

My trainer refers to it as mapping. Jenn

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I lost a lot of fat, and I was able to lift more & more weight, so I must have gained muscle, no?

Not necessarily, although hypertrophy *can* certainly result in increased strength.  Increases in strength are frequently due to neurological adaptations.

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I agree, except that I do not think that he needs to be drmatic

(radical) about cutting calories. 1,000 per day is all he needs to cut to get excellent results. Cutting 1000 cal per day does sound dramatic to me! I simply meant that he might need to consciously take his eating down a level. All the factors in our biology and society conspire to act like an incoming tide in pushing our BMI’s up over the years. To stem this in yourself I believe you need to act aggressively. It means stepping out of ‘normal’ behaviour. But normal depends on who it is you hang with. If you want to be super skinny then hang out with models! My ideal body type is like that of a sprinter or boxer. Unfortunately I don’t know any. Most of my co-workers are overweight and can’t understand why I don’t always want to go in with them in Friday lunch pizza. ‘Don’t you like pizza?’

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Polar Light schreef: But it’s not very likely that the OP has increased muscle mass, they always say weight loss & muscle gain are almost mutually exclusive.

I have often heard that for *beginning* weight lifters, it *is* possible. In fact, it’s what I did myself, when I went down from 100+ kg to ~80. I lost a lot of fat, and I was able to lift more & more weight, so I must have gained muscle, no? Berna (101.5/76/~68 kg – starting weight training again RSN) — ( )_( ) Berna M. Bleeker-Slikker / http://www.volksliedjes.nl

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Ive been reading the forums for a while and I hope you guys can help or give me some advice please. I started dieting 2 years ago, since i was overweight and having problems with high blood pressure, following a low fat diet approach and walking for 20 – 30 mins each day.,and taking tablets for the blood pressure.  Initially i lost 2 1/2 stones in 6 months and i was very pleased.   However things started to plateau and i put a stone or so back on again. I have recently started my diet again in earnest, although i never really stopped, just became less ‘disciplined’, and i attend a gym 3 times a week, doing mostly aerobic workouts, treadmill and cycle.   However after nearly 4 months my weight has not changed at all – it hasnt gone up (thank goodness) but hasnt gone down at all either.  Im really starting to wonder whats going on! Hope someone might have some ideas!

Besided ‘re-dedicating’ yourself to careful food choices, you might also want to add some ’strength training’ to your exercise routine (a bit of dumbell work… or bodyweight exercises, etc.) Increasing the amount of muscle mass you have will increase your resting metabolism, and looks like it could be your ‘missing ingredient’ (it will also help with your blood pressure). You also might want to experiment a little with different diets (ie. eating less carbs and more protien) Good luck!

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Question:

awesome changes!!! H. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was out to a hockey game this weekend and had dinner and drinks before the game with friends.  The original plan was to eat at a pub which always means limited vegetarian choices for me.  I was very happy when someone suggested a Mediterranean restaurant instead.  It was so yummy and much better than the artery-clogging nachos I would have been stuck with at the pub.  I planned on having 3 beers (haven’t had beer in ages).  Halfway through the second beer I started to feel very bloated and uncomfortably full.  I gave the rest of my beer to DH and went for some water.  I felt so full all night, all I wanted to do was go home and lay down — or barf LOL.  I don’t think I’ve ever felt like that after one and a half beers before and although it tasted quite nice I think it will be a while before I desire a brew again.  Since I had planned on nachos and 3 beers I came out under my cal limit for the day, but I was way too bloated to even think about eating anything else. It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before! I happily report a 2lb drop this week. Willow Willow Darcy Shaw from Atlantic Canada Current Loss: -16 lbs Mini Goal: lose 25 lbs by 1st week May Ultimate Goal: lose 70 lbs

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I was out to a hockey game this weekend and had dinner and drinks before the game with friends.  The original plan was to eat at a pub which always means limited vegetarian choices for me.  I was very happy when someone suggested a Mediterranean restaurant instead.  It was so yummy and much better than the artery-clogging nachos I would have been stuck with at the pub.  I planned on having 3 beers (haven’t had beer in ages).  Halfway through the second beer I started to feel very bloated and uncomfortably full.  I gave the rest of my beer to DH and went for some water.  I felt so full all night, all I wanted to do was go home and lay down — or barf LOL.  I don’t think I’ve ever felt like that after one and a half beers before and although it tasted quite nice I think it will be a while before I desire a brew again.  Since I had planned on nachos and 3 beers I came out under my cal limit for the day, but I was way too bloated to even think about eating anything else. It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before! I happily report a 2lb drop this week. Willow Willow Darcy Shaw from Atlantic Canada Current Loss: -16 lbs Mini Goal: lose 25 lbs by 1st week May Ultimate Goal: lose 70 lbs

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planned on having 3 beers (haven’t had beer in ages).  Halfway through the second beer I started to feel very bloated and uncomfortably full.  I gave the rest of my beer to DH and went for some water.  I felt so full all night, all I wanted to do was go home and lay down — or barf LOL.  I don’t think I’ve ever felt like that after one and a half beers before and although it tasted quite nice I think it will be a while before I desire a brew again.

If you’ve been on a diet for a while you probably have less capacity in your stomach than you did before, the stomach is elastic. Beer can be very filling, especially if you don’t normally have fizzy drinks as part of your diet. It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before!

Yeah, I went to Starbucks on Sat & had a blueberry muffin & caramel macchiato with cream whilst still staying under 1200 cals for the day. I had cereal & fruit for b’fast but nothing after Starbucks, it wasn’t a temptation I couldn’t resist, I had planned all along I’d have a fattening coffee & a muffin. You have to indulge sometimes. Maybe I didn’t get enough protein & nutrition that day but one day of ‘nutritional defficiency’ hasn’t killed anybody… I happily report a 2lb drop this week.

Congrats…

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It’s also fun to realize foods you thought you really, really loved (and of course were off the calorie & fat charts) don’t quite *do it* for you anymore.  I seldom use butter or mayo anymore.

Mary responds: Way true. I lost 60 lb from last September to now, on a low carb/low fat diet, and I’m finding higher fat stuff tastes ick. Fried stuff actually taste gross. Dunno why that is, but its pronounced. We have a KFC place near us, and sometimes on the weekends when no one feels like cooking, we get take out for our three kids, and I’m not even remotely tempted to eat the stuff anymore. I also find I’m doing the math in my head all the time and calculating the trade offs …lets see…if I can have X calories, I can either have one tiny micro serving of this (pick some high fat or high carb item) OR I can have a huge amount of this low cal alternatives. Right now, my heads way more into the volume – probably because I’m thinking about ways to NOT end up hungry. I even do the math on condiments…okay, if I put butter or mayo on it, that means I can’t eat that extra tub of low fat yoghurt…which I’d rather have! Mary G.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before! I happily report a 2lb drop this week. Willow Willow Darcy Shaw from Atlantic Canada Current Loss: -16 lbs Mini Goal: lose 25 lbs by 1st week May Ultimate Goal: lose 70 lbs

WTG Willow!  Two pounds is great.   Beverly

Response:

It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before! I happily report a 2lb drop this week.

Very cool, Willow.  Keep it up! It’s also fun to realize foods you thought you really, really loved (and of course were off the calorie & fat charts) don’t quite *do it* for you anymore.  I seldom use butter or mayo anymore. — Snowshoeing . . . Laurie in Maine 207/115  New Scale Start: 2/02  Maintained since 2/03 —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

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Question:

Hi, all      After reading about the FitDay.com software online, I thought I’d try it.  Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.  Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.  That’s a gimme.  What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?  I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.  I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.  Not sure you would want to.     I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04).  It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.      Just wanted some input from those of you that have info on stuff like this. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all      After reading about the FitDay.com software online, I thought I’d try it.  Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.  Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.  That’s a gimme.  What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?  I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.  I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.  Not sure you would want to.     I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04).  It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.      Just wanted some input from those of you that have info on stuff like this. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

I would argue that you *are* following Atkins – because that diet is about *sufficient* carbs. True, you are not following induction, but you are trying to find the "right" amount of carbs, which is what Atkins was actually on about. I found just by eliminating refined carbs from my diet, I was able to make carbs the lowest of the C/P/F balance quite easily, and that’s as far as I think I need to take it. — Succorso

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A low carb diet that is practiced as low fat has less chance for bringing about weight loss. That happens for a couple of reasons, one is that excess protein is converted to sugar, and second is that it is difficult to eat the necessary quantity of protein. Eating protein without increasing fat is possible, a lot of meats such as turkey breast are fat free.

Interesting.  I’m not really sure that I would even need to worry about the fat at this point.  It has got to be better to have this much weight off, pretty much regardless of how it’s done (within reason).  I guess just seeing the graph surprised me for some reason.  You know, out of sight out of mind.  I’ve been so fixated on the carbs that I didn’t even think about the fat level. This has been discussed many times in alt.support.diet.low-carb.

I’m sure, but I don’t find the "atmosphere" conducive to learning.  I could try and search the archives.  That would limit exposure to the group. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

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I would argue that you *are* following Atkins – because that diet is about *sufficient* carbs. True, you are not following induction, but you are trying to find the "right" amount of carbs, which is what Atkins was actually on about.

Well, if you put it that way, okay.  :)  Really, I’m just keeping the carbs down by not eating regular pasta, potatoes, rice, refined sugar. I have been eating more vegetables:  broccoli, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, green beans. I’ve been cooking with less butter/oil/etc, so the vegetables are prepared healthier. I found just by eliminating refined carbs from my diet, I was able to make carbs the lowest of the C/P/F balance quite easily, and that’s as far as I think I need to take it.

If I remember correctly, the C/P/F ratio was around 10%/45%/45% over the last few days.  I like the fact I don’t really have cravings and very seldom get "hungry" unless I have gone over 5 hours without eating.  Hopefully, my blood chemistry will remain good and I’ll not have to worry about it right now.  Kinda scared to increase the carbs too much, don’t know how my system would react to it. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all     After reading about the FitDay.com software online, I thought I’d try it.  Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.  Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.  That’s a gimme.  What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?  I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.  I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.  Not sure you would want to.    I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04). It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.     Just wanted some input from those of you that have info on stuff like this. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Look at you sliding down the scale! I remember the day you posted that you broke 300 — excellent progress, Donna! I am currently trying to figure out my correct balance on FitDay too — I am going to take my laptop to my next nutritionist visit and see if he can help me adjust my numbers. Right now I am kind of going for fat 30%, carb 40% and protein 30%, which is the Zone. But I find that I am going over 30% on fat, and am trying to get that down while getting protein up. So I am interested to see how it continues for you. Mary

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I really like the software.  I’m using the online version to see if I want to buy it.  Do you use the online software or have you purchased it?  I’m not sure it would be worth it or not.  I’ll need to check into it further before I decide.

I got the FitDay PC software last w/e & I’m quite pleased. Having it on your own PC makes it a lot faster than using the online version & you can easily check out previous days without the dreaded waits. There’s a good database of foods with full nutrition info as well calories burnt in all sorts of activities. You can assess your caloric requirements, estimate your daily restriction, set weight goals, calculate your BMI, etc. You can probably do all this on the Net but ths is a lot faster. For $20, I think it’s worth it.

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Low Carb + Low Fat fails.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all      After reading about the FitDay.com software online, I thought I’d try it.  Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.  Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.  That’s a gimme.  What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?  I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.  I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.  Not sure you would want to.     I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04).  It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.      Just wanted some input from those of you that have info on stuff like this. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

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I never thought I would actually make it below 200. It took 22

years–eek! But you made it!!!!  That’s all that matters.  :) Response regarding FitDay software I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are.

Price is great.  I really have gotten to like the online version, so I’d probably like the real version, too.  Just have to scrape together $20 bucks, then I’ll buy it. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

Seems I’m eating equal amounts of Protein and Fat, and a much smaller amount of Carbohydrates.

Okay.  Equal calories or equal grams? Now, I know that if you are lowering one part of the C/P/F, one or more of the others will go up.

For percentages, sure. What I’m interested in, is it beneficial or even warrented to try and decrease fat?

Not unless you are already in your last 10 pounds or maybe 20.  Once low in carbs decreasing fat stops helping. The reason is hormonal.  Eat low enough carbs to be in ketosis and your insulin falls below some threshhold. Eat even less and all you’re doing is working towards starvation mode triggered by thryoid-T3/leptin feedback. Eat more fat and your body releases more glucagon; eat less fat and your body releases less glucagon.  It’s an indirect reaction that includes adrenaline feedback. Here’s the key: Glucagon level determines the rate of fat withdrawal.  More dietary fat, indirectly more glucagon, more fat withdrawn, higher resting metabolism. As you approach an overeating level this gets overwhelmed, no free lunch and no unlimited fat.  Less dietary fat, indirectly less glucagon, less fat withdrawn, lower resting metabolism.  As you approach starvation the decrease doesn’t hit zero so the big hammer approach of starvation does trigger some loss. I’m really not doing a strict Atkins Diet anymore, but am less than 20% on carbs for the last 2 days.

You can’t tell if you’re strict from your carb intake. As long as you’re in ketosis then you count as strict or not depending on what order you added your carbs.  Strict is about adherence to the process not about lowness of carb count. I’m not sure you can push the protein higher without increasing fat, too.

Whey/soy/egg protien isolate powder.  Yuck in quantity. Not sure you would want to.

Since it is merely extra calories that don’t much effect withdrawal of fat, agreed.  Then again the optimal loss is getting down to your lowest safe level of protein and making up the calories with fat.  Doing that (per the hormonal feedback loops above) does work to bust stalls, but eating small amounts of very greasy meat is yuck as well. I’m thinking about going like I am now (which I’m losing at a nice rate, maybe a little fast) until May

If it’s going well, don’t break it. and then asking my GP to check my blood levels again.  All my chemistry was great the last time (Aug 04).  It would be interesting to see if the change in the diet has had an affect on the cholesterol/triglycerides/LDL/HDL, etc.

Dr Atkins claimed 80% of folks see better blood results after 6 months on his plan.  Given posted numbers this appears to be true.  You aren’t actually doing Atkins but close enough that I suggest you have that 80% chance after doing it 6+ months.

Response:

I think that the progress that you are having cannot be described as anything but "wonderful".

Thank You so much.  I’m really kind of shocked myself.  Maybe it was just time for things to start clicking.  I can only hope/work that it continues.  :) Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

Look at you sliding down the scale! I remember the day you posted that you broke 300 — excellent progress, Donna!

Thank You!!!  I’m kinda amazed myself.  I don’t think I really thought I would make it below 300, now I’m looking at 275! I am currently trying to figure out my correct balance on FitDay too — I am going to take my laptop to my next nutritionist visit and see if he can help me adjust my numbers. Right now I am kind of going for fat 30%, carb 40% and protein 30%, which is the Zone. But I find that I am going over 30% on fat, and am trying to get that down while getting protein up. So I am interested to see how it continues for you.

I really like the software.  I’m using the online version to see if I want to buy it.  Do you use the online software or have you purchased it?  I’m not sure it would be worth it or not.  I’ll need to check into it further before I decide. Donna K. 398.8/291.2/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

Response:

Look at you sliding down the scale! I remember the day you posted that you broke 300 — excellent progress, Donna! Thank You!!!  I’m kinda amazed myself.  I don’t think I really thought I would make it below 300, now I’m looking at 275!

I never thought I would actually make it below 200. It took 22 years–eek! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently trying to figure out my correct balance on FitDay too — I am going to take my laptop to my next nutritionist visit and see if he can help me adjust my numbers. Right now I am kind of going for fat 30%, carb 40% and protein 30%, which is the Zone. But I find that I am going over 30% on fat, and am trying to get that down while getting protein up. So I am interested to see how it continues for you. I really like the software.  I’m using the online version to see if I want to buy it.  Do you use the online software or have you purchased it?  I’m not sure it would be worth it or not.  I’ll need to check into it further before I decide.

I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are. Mary

Response:

Different things work for different people.  Just as some people do well on low carb due to things like insulin resistance, there are those who end up not doing well with a fatty diet (even "good" fats) because of things like liver problems.  Lower fat diets have been very successful for dieters in the past (including the majority on the National Weight Loss Registrty) and tend to work fine especially when the fat is *not* replaced by sugar like many "fat-free" products are.

I also try to avoid sugar since it provides just empty calories & they say eating sugar makes you crave more sugar. I’m not really sure whether this applies to me, I seem to go through ’sweet’ periods and ’savoury’ periods in my life. But I’m not worried about sugar in fruit like some people, I think the nutritional value & taste of fresh fruit more than make up for it. Personally if I go over a certain amount of fat over the course of a few days I will then end up puking my guts out for days to follow.  Fat is also a binge trigger for me and studies of binge eaters have shown that a typical binge is much higher in fat than any other macronutrient, including carbs. I try to keep my fat intake to 20-25% of my total calories unless I’m having an episode with my liver and then I have to shoot for 10% or less.

According to Fitday, I average 23% fat. I try to avoid fat most of the time but I think it would be difficult to go as low as 10%, you probably have to study the labels of everything very carefully to achieve such low levels.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yet low fatting works for a percentage of thepopulation. with shooting hunger and deprivation. I lost 50lbs and wasn’t hungry at all and I still had caloric room for not exactly healthy food like In N Out. I felt a weird "10% distress" signal a lot, but that was probably because I was losing at an agressive 2lbs/week (~1%/mass/week). Low fat does work for me, I have tried low carb a few times but my body doesn’t like it at all, I end up with very low energy & feeling like I’m catching the flu.. With a good supply of carbs from fruit & veg, cereal & fiber crackers I can go quite low on the calories & still feel great, most of the time without hunger. I do eat smoked salmon once or twice a week for its fish oil & use the odd teaspon of olive oil here’n'there but I don’t see the reason to add more fat to my diet, since it has over twice as many cals as carbs & protein I’d rather go with the other two.

Different things work for different people.  Just as some people do well on low carb due to things like insulin resistance, there are those who end up not doing well with a fatty diet (even "good" fats) because of things like liver problems.  Lower fat diets have been very successful for dieters in the past (including the majority on the National Weight Loss Registrty) and tend to work fine especially when the fat is *not* replaced by sugar like many "fat-free" products are. Personally if I go over a certain amount of fat over the course of a few days I will then end up puking my guts out for days to follow.  Fat is also a binge trigger for me and studies of binge eaters have shown that a typical binge is much higher in fat than any other macronutrient, including carbs. I try to keep my fat intake to 20-25% of my total calories unless I’m having an episode with my liver and then I have to shoot for 10% or less. YMMV Jenn

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Yet low fatting works for a percentage of thepopulation. with shooting hunger and deprivation. I lost 50lbs and wasn’t hungry at all and I still had caloric room for not exactly healthy food like In N Out. I felt a weird "10% distress" signal a lot, but that was probably because I was losing at an agressive 2lbs/week (~1%/mass/week).

Low fat does work for me, I have tried low carb a few times but my body doesn’t like it at all, I end up with very low energy & feeling like I’m catching the flu.. With a good supply of carbs from fruit & veg, cereal & fiber crackers I can go quite low on the calories & still feel great, most of the time without hunger. I do eat smoked salmon once or twice a week for its fish oil & use the odd teaspon of olive oil here’n'there but I don’t see the reason to add more fat to my diet, since it has over twice as many cals as carbs & protein I’d rather go with the other two.

Response:

Yet low fatting works for a percentage of thepopulation.

with shooting hunger and deprivation. I lost 50lbs and wasn’t hungry at all and I still had caloric room for not exactly healthy food like In N Out. I felt a weird "10% distress" signal a lot, but that was probably because I was losing at an agressive 2lbs/week (~1%/mass/week).

Response:

Here’s the key: Glucagon level determines the rate of fat withdrawal.  More dietary fat, indirectly more glucagon, more fat withdrawn, higher resting metabolism. This makes loads of physiologic sense. It’s counterintuitive, but I believe it is necessary to eat fat to lose fat, like you say

It is quite counterinituitive but it does work. There are intuitive parts – Overeat and the mechanism is overwhelmed.  Undereat enough and eventually you break through any starvation modes. until the body gets within 10lbs of its excess fat reserves.

The mechanism itself continues to work, it’s just that the numbers change as you lose and eventually you start hitting limits.  Atkins CCLL determines your minimum carb intake to resist thyroid/leptin cycle starvation defenses.  Protein intake can’t fall below some level without triggering a similar defense.  But as you get less stored fat, your total caloric needs go down. Those minimums start to get near what you actually eat and the place to cut starts being fat. Something about lean times and famine making the body value its fat deposits more than muscle.

Correct.  Burn off the tissue that burns the most energy and stores the least first.  Burn off the tissue burns the least energy and stores the most last.  It is SO easy to ignore this and attempt to lose fast enough that your body is canabalizing lean.  Sometimes it seems like every newbie out there takes losing lean as their goal without thinking this through. Plant starches are the last thing to go in a famine, so carbing up on a low-fat diet regimen basically simulates a famine for the body.

Yet low fatting works for a percentage of thepopulation.

Response:

Thanks, Donna! I felt so lame being unable to reach that goal no matter what I did at the time — and sometimes that feeling can linger on till now, where I am hovering above goal weight and can’t seem to get there … but now I have a better handle on things and can see the goal as within reach now.

There was a time when I flirted with 250 and between missinformation from the scientific community and a thyroid that finally died, I gave up.  That’s been over 15 years ago.  I would excercise 2-4 hours 5-6 days a week, kept my calories below 2000 (same as now) and still my weight crept up.  It’s one of the reason’s I think Complex Carbs are really bad for me. I was afraid that 300 would be the same wall, but (except for a 6 month plateau) it came and went.  I’m now focusing on 275, but really think that 250 is my next big milestone to cross.  I’ve got a much better frame of mind and attitude this go round, thankfully.  Also, I have a wonderfully supportive DH that is a tremendous help, and can’t possibly be bragged on enough.  I also have a wonderful DS that is 4.5 yo, who just by being around can give me great strength (and sometimes a great challenge…teehee). Donna K. 398.8/287.4/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003

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I never thought I would actually make it below 200. It took 22 years–eek! But you made it!!!!  That’s all that matters.  :)

Thanks, Donna! I felt so lame being unable to reach that goal no matter what I did at the time — and sometimes that feeling can linger on till now, where I am hovering above goal weight and can’t seem to get there … but now I have a better handle on things and can see the goal as within reach now. Response regarding FitDay software I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are. Price is great.  I really have gotten to like the online version, so I’d probably like the real version, too.  Just have to scrape together $20 bucks, then I’ll buy it.

I think you will enjoy it! Mary

Response:

According to Fitday, I average 23% fat. I try to avoid fat most of the time but I think it would be difficult to go as low as 10%, you probably have to study the labels of everything very carefully to achieve such low levels.

It’s a very bland diet with very few food choices (mostly carbs) that fortunately I’ve only had to do a few times in my life.  Nowadays there are more options with protein shakes and meal replacements that work well to provide sufficient nearly fat free nutrition for the extreme cases of need. Jenn

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There you are! So glad you are doing well — hope that snow melts soon! Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are. Mary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought it and love it — I thought the price was very good for the features. I haven’t used the online version in a long time, so I don’t really know what the differences are. Mary

Response:

Here’s the key: Glucagon level determines the rate of fat withdrawal.  More dietary fat, indirectly more glucagon, more fat withdrawn, higher resting metabolism.

This makes loads of physiologic sense. It’s counterintuitive, but I believe it is necessary to eat fat to lose fat, like you say until the body gets within 10lbs of its excess fat reserves. Something about lean times and famine making the body value its fat deposits more than muscle. Plant starches are the last thing to go in a famine, so carbing up on a low-fat diet regimen basically simulates a famine for the body.   I’m not a big ketosis fan but 30-40-30 seems about right.

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