Low Fat Diet

Question:

I don’t believe the so-called weight neutral meds are really weight neutral.  They still slow your metabolism. I weigh more than I did before I was on meds and I follow a low fat diet. penguin

Response:

Weight gain can ultimately be life threatening.  Regardless of the reputation of your meds, the result should not be ignored. Make it clear to your P-doc that you need to make a change to stop it.  Some P-docs don’t care about weight gain, even to levels of morbid obesity.  You may need to change P-docs. "Buther Boy" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:u5m5l1pt925advn03a3ar6q3c0skom147v@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am gaining weight like mad, and I just don’t know how to gain > control of my eating and of food.  I just am afraid that I gain every > day, and I probably am!  I’ve gained a lot this year, and I remain on > a weight neutral set of psychiatric drugs.  Go figure! > Buther Boy > — > Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… > http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png > ~

Response:

I am about 78 kg while I should weigh about 70 kg. So I have what you call a Budha belly. Cisordinol is not weight nutral but also not like Zyprexa. I don’t care much about my belly. Berty

Response:

I hit 119 kg after switching off of diet soda and going to the full calorie stuff and gaining 14 kg in 18 months.

Response:

Buther Boy I went to a dietician and she told me to eat foods with 3 grams of fat per 100 calories.  I don’t go that extreme but I basically try to follow a low fat diet.  I look at all the labels on foods and try to eat foods with 6 or 7 grams of fat per serving.  I haven’t lost but I haven’t gained any more weight by following a low fat diet. Ask your psychiatrist to refer you to a dietician.   take care penguin

Response:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:10:54 -0700, kol…@webtv.net (Penguin A) wrote: >Buther Boy >I went to a dietician and she told me to eat foods with 3 grams of fat >per 100 calories.  I don’t go that extreme but I basically try to follow >a low fat diet.  I look at all the labels on foods and try to eat foods >with 6 or 7 grams of fat per serving.  I haven’t lost but I haven’t >gained any more weight by following a low fat diet. >Ask your psychiatrist to refer you to a dietician.   >take care >penguin

thanks, penguin!  good info. — Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

Response:

I am gaining weight like mad, and I just don’t know how to gain control of my eating and of food.  I just am afraid that I gain every day, and I probably am!  I’ve gained a lot this year, and I remain on a weight neutral set of psychiatric drugs.  Go figure! Buther Boy — Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

Response:

I know this is an obvious approach, but it’s what I’m doing now: One thing I’m trying is drinking hot coffee (decaf) and tea.  Drinking hot beverages is a slow process.  Plus it fills you up.  If hot isn’t your cup of tea (pardon the pun) drinking ice water/tea fills you up and maybe instead of reaching for something to munch on, reach for a calorie less drink.  Sugary sodas/drinks have calories.  I would much rather eat my calories than drink them. I know a guy that lost 30lbs cutting soda completely out of his diet. I still like diet sodas, but maybe they make me crave the calories the sweetners take out.  Hard to tell.

Response:

Question:

I started up w/ the meds again today…. I quit taking them, them being zoloft and abilify, awhile back and have felt really good over the past month or so, I havent obsessed on or seen anything at all.. I really dont think I need it… but my home situation sucks and since I am being blamed for being the fuck up/ bitch.. and sometimes when youre in the middle of something you dont realise how youre being until its over.. I started the meds incase it really is me this time. The doctor was mad that I had stopped.. He said I need it. ( I had to go back  this afternoon for a new prescription since my refills were 0 – because he wants to see me monthly and makes me come back to get the meds) Today he said he thinks I need to take zyprexa instead of abilify. I hear zyprexa is pretty harsh. -Kim

Response:

I took zyprexa for a year and was flat on my back for most of that time. It wasn’t a matter of being tired, more a matter of zyprexa kicking my ass. I was lethargic and pretty much unresponsive to others. I could take care of myself but I didn’t do very well at it. I showered every two to three days and shaved once a week or so. I could cook on zyprexa but preferred going to denny’s for meals. I also gained 50 pounds in the year that I was on it.   On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:50:05 -0700, "Kim" <monotre…@hotmail.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I started up w/ the meds again today…. I quit taking them, them being >zoloft and abilify, awhile back and have felt really good over the past >month or so, I havent obsessed on or seen anything at all.. I really dont >think I need it… but my home situation sucks and since I am being blamed >for being the fuck up/ bitch.. and sometimes when youre in the middle of >something you dont realise how youre being until its over.. I started the >meds incase it really is me this time. The doctor was mad that I had >stopped.. He said I need it. ( I had to go back  this afternoon for a new >prescription since my refills were 0 – because he wants to see me monthly >and makes me come back to get the meds) Today he said he thinks I need to >take zyprexa instead of abilify. I hear zyprexa is pretty harsh. >-Kim

Response:

Thanks Dan. I am actually pretty afraid to try it.. and weight gain is the opposite of what I need! I think he just wants me to mellow out – He always mentions my impulsive behavior.. and I dont sleep much but I have a baby! What does he expect. I dont know really. Thanks again.

Response:

I took Zyprexa for a short while. The only side-effect I noticed was sexual dysfunction.

Response:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:50:05 -0700, "Kim" <monotre…@hotmail.com> wrote: >I started up w/ the meds again today…. I quit taking them, them being >zoloft and abilify, awhile back and have felt really good over the past >month or so, I havent obsessed on or seen anything at all.. I really dont >think I need it… but my home situation sucks and since I am being blamed >for being the fuck up/ bitch.. and sometimes when youre in the middle of >something you dont realise how youre being until its over.. I started the >meds incase it really is me this time. The doctor was mad that I had >stopped.. He said I need it. ( I had to go back  this afternoon for a new >prescription since my refills were 0 – because he wants to see me monthly >and makes me come back to get the meds) Today he said he thinks I need to >take zyprexa instead of abilify. I hear zyprexa is pretty harsh. >-Kim

My experiences with zyprexa were short and hard to comment on, and then I switched to Geodon.  Geodon has been helpful to me.  Have you tried that?  I know that other people here are taking it. (The big question is will your doctor allow for your input or is your going off your meds making that hard for him to consent to?) Good luck. Buther Boy — Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

Response:

Kim wrote: >I started up w/ the meds again today…. I quit taking them, them being > zoloft and abilify, awhile back and have felt really good over the past > month or so, I havent obsessed on or seen anything at all.. I really dont > think I need it… but my home situation sucks and since I am being blamed > for being the fuck up/ bitch.. and sometimes when youre in the middle of > something you dont realise how youre being until its over.. I started the > meds incase it really is me this time. The doctor was mad that I had > stopped.. He said I need it. ( I had to go back  this afternoon for a new > prescription since my refills were 0 – because he wants to see me monthly > and makes me come back to get the meds) Today he said he thinks I need to > take zyprexa instead of abilify. I hear zyprexa is pretty harsh. > -Kim

Leesten very carefully, i shall say this only once: YOU ARE NOT A BITCH. m-kay?

Response:

Zyprexa >> morbid obesity >> alleged onset of diabetes On the positive side, Zyprexa is exceptionally good at reducing anxiety. Have you tried a low dosage of risperdal?  I know some others here have had problems with risperdal, but for me it has been useful. "Kim" <monotre…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:11jhg55ec65dse5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I started up w/ the meds again today…. I quit taking them, them being > zoloft and abilify, awhile back and have felt really good over the past > month or so, I havent obsessed on or seen anything at all.. I really dont > think I need it… but my home situation sucks and since I am being blamed > for being the fuck up/ bitch.. and sometimes when youre in the middle of > something you dont realise how youre being until its over.. I started the > meds incase it really is me this time. The doctor was mad that I had > stopped.. He said I need it. ( I had to go back  this afternoon for a new > prescription since my refills were 0 – because he wants to see me monthly > and makes me come back to get the meds) Today he said he thinks I need to > take zyprexa instead of abilify. I hear zyprexa is pretty harsh. > -Kim

Response:

yeah i assume the diabetes risk is from the weight gain.  i gained about 20 lbs on Zyprexa.  but i’m now down to 180 pounds.  i do have to actively eat less when i start putting on fat. i should be about 170 lbs.  i need to work on my muscle too.  women find muscle to be sexy. weight control is just self-discipline. m.

Response:

Kim Be careful with Zyprexa.  It made me gain 100 lbs and I wasnt’t overeating.  I lost the 100 lbs when I switched meds.  It also made me into a vegetable.  I couldn’t even watch tv. I am on geodon.  Geodon is least likely to cause weight gain.  I find that with all these antipsychotics; you have to follow a low fat diet otherwise you will gain weight. I was skinny before I was on medication, now I really have to watch my weight. There was an article in the paper that the new antipsychotics can really make you gain weight except geodon. Everyone reacts differently to these meds so you may have a different reaction.  The older antipsychotics are said to cause less weight gain but have their own side effects. penguin

Response:

Don’t do the zyprexa thing if you don’t have to as it will make you into a marshmellow.  Yep, zyprexa has been known to do this, just like in Ghostbusters. Jim "Kim" <monotre…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:11jhg55ec65dse5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I started up w/ the meds again today…. I quit taking them, them being > zoloft and abilify, awhile back and have felt really good over the past > month or so, I havent obsessed on or seen anything at all.. I really dont > think I need it… but my home situation sucks and since I am being blamed > for being the fuck up/ bitch.. and sometimes when youre in the middle of > something you dont realise how youre being until its over.. I started the > meds incase it really is me this time. The doctor was mad that I had > stopped.. He said I need it. ( I had to go back  this afternoon for a new > prescription since my refills were 0 – because he wants to see me monthly > and makes me come back to get the meds) Today he said he thinks I need to > take zyprexa instead of abilify. I hear zyprexa is pretty harsh. > -Kim

Response:

Question:

I didn’t have a planned refeed, but I think I’m going to categorize what I just did as a "refeed." My period came five days late, which isn’t all that uncommon considering my recent history with delayed menstrual cycles. As a result, I’ve been indulging *way* more than I should the last two to three days. Yesterday, for example, I had five (yes, count them, FIVE) baked goods from the offerings at the office. And today was worse: it started out okay with a healthy omelette that weighed in at around 170 calories, but the consumption quickly nosedived from there: 4 oz. salted almonds 1/2 smoked salmon sandwich 2c haagen daz chocolate sorbet (amazingly two cups equated to only around 520 calories) 1/2 grapefruit 1/2 c rice with about 1 oz. steamed tilapia 2 oz. callebaut semi-sweet chocolate chips (which I RARELY touch, but PMS = chocolate cravings) 2 T peanut butter 2 bananas 3 2" x 2" pieces of cantelope 1 skim-milk string cheese All in all, I think I consumed around 2300-2500 calories today. I usually average at around 1200-1300. I’ve been doing good in the last month and keeping up with my exercise routine, even breaking my plateau of 135, getting down to 131lbs. I weighed myself at the gym today (after this gorge) and was at 138, although I believe it reflects bloating and menstrual symptoms. Question: now that I am going to classify this as a "refeed," what should I do now? Resume my regular eating and exercise regime? Should I exercise more? Should I eat less? I want to rid my body of all the junk I ate today and return back to last week when I was well below my goal.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I didn’t have a planned refeed, but I think I’m going to categorize what I just did as a "refeed." My period came five days late, which isn’t all that uncommon considering my recent history with delayed menstrual cycles. As a result, I’ve been indulging *way* more than I should the last two to three days. Yesterday, for example, I had five (yes, count them, FIVE) baked goods from the offerings at the office. And today was worse: it started out okay with a healthy omelette that weighed in at around 170 calories, but the consumption quickly nosedived from there: 4 oz. salted almonds 1/2 smoked salmon sandwich 2c haagen daz chocolate sorbet (amazingly two cups equated to only around 520 calories) 1/2 grapefruit 1/2 c rice with about 1 oz. steamed tilapia 2 oz. callebaut semi-sweet chocolate chips (which I RARELY touch, but PMS = chocolate cravings) 2 T peanut butter 2 bananas 3 2" x 2" pieces of cantelope 1 skim-milk string cheese All in all, I think I consumed around 2300-2500 calories today. I usually average at around 1200-1300. I’ve been doing good in the last month and keeping up with my exercise routine, even breaking my plateau of 135, getting down to 131lbs. I weighed myself at the gym today (after this gorge) and was at 138, although I believe it reflects bloating and menstrual symptoms. Question: now that I am going to classify this as a "refeed," what should I do now? Resume my regular eating and exercise regime? Should I exercise more? Should I eat less? I want to rid my body of all the junk I ate today and return back to last week when I was well below my goal.

hello there best thing you can do after a binge, is simply get back onto a more healthier balanced diet as soon as you can. good luck

Response:

Here’s something I picked up once in my cyberspace-travels: You’ve been on a junkfood binge for three days [a week, two months, a year, most of your life] now. You’re ready to stop; you know your life was immeasurably better before you took that first bite that sealed your doom–you want your life back, your mind back, your peace back. Maybe you want to get these things for the first time. "How do I stop?" you ask yourself. In some ways it seems it would be kinder to just continue the binge, putting off the inevitable just one more day. But you feel fat, you feel disgusted, you may even hate yourself. You know that all this crazy eating could easily lead to gaining back the ten pounds [20 pounds, 50 pounds, 100 pounds] you just lost, and then you’d be right back where you started. "I have to stop doing this!" you cry inwardly. But how do you know that you won’t get up, dust off, only to fall in the mud once more? You wonder if it is worth it to put forth the effort when it seems likely you will only blow it again. After all, it seems, you’ve bit the dust before a million times. You’ve been here before. You realize that you’re not yourself, that you aren’t thinking quite right. So you grit your teeth and pull yourself together, silencing the shouting voices of defeat and condemnation in your head, and with all that is in you, you slam on the breaks. SCRRRRRREEEEEECH!!!!! Sound familiar? With a few changes here and there, it could adequately describe the experience of most anyone who struggles with compulsive eating. So now what? Stopping the binge is hard, but usually only for a couple days if you can successfully get back on track, and then you’re left wondering how you could ever have fallen for that old temptation again. As a person quite familiar with the revolving door of abstinent living (voluntarily omitting troublesome foods from one’s life), I have developed a plan for making a smooth, quick transition from binge back to healthful living that addresses inherent difficulties. Here are my ideas: If you’re into praying, pray. Recognize that crazy eating usually causes crazy thinking too, so if you’re aware that not every thought that passes through is a good, healthy thought, it makes it easier to conscientiously ignore those that threaten to abort your right intentions. Resolve to refuse to listen to negative thoughts which berate you, remind you of your mistake-ridden history, and urge you to give up. Cleanse your home of all "binge foods." Whatever your current food downfall(s) is(are), get rid of it(them). If you can’t stand to throw food away, give it to someone. If your spouse or housemate insists on keeping such foods in the house, ask this person to keep it away from you for a while. If they won’t comply, kick him/her out! (just kidding!) If your problem is all food, skip to the next item. Stay away from slippery places whenever possible for a while. For instance, don’t pick a doughnut shop to meet a friend for coffee. Going out to dinner with the family "just because" is probably unwise at this stage as well. Skip unnecessary potlucks and smorgasboards, and don’t instigate social food-fests until you have some time under your belt and are walking in more self-control. Be kind to yourself, and don’t get on a baking kick "for the kids" your first week back in line. DO engage in as many non-food social activities as possible, increasing your enjoyment of the many different people and aspects of life that don’t involve your tastebuds and stomach. Make yourself accountable to someone. For some people, it helps if they know they will "report" to another person each day. It sure can make it harder for you to play games with yourself, as long as you are upfront and honest with your accountability partner. I rarely stop a binge episode in the middle of the day. Once a day is shot, it usually stays shot. So when I’ve made up my mind to turn around and go the opposite direction again, I sit down the night before the "new beginning" and write down menus for the next three days. It is important to do this when you are in a relatively good frame of mind ( a hopeful one). Your menus should NOT be deprivational. In fact, I suggest pretending that you are designing them for a best-loved friend who has come to you for help in getting off a binge. You would not suggest this friend starve herself on meals of raw carrots and celery, would you? You would not punish or teach your friend a lesson with an overly restrictive diet. No, you would create a plan that would satisfy your pal’s hunger while moving him/her back in the direction of his/her goals and affording the greatest odds of success. Choose your favorite low-fat health foods, including a dessert item for the second or third day (if you normally do desserts, that is). Learn to show yourself honor and love, even if you don’t feel it at the moment. If you don’t know what a good, healthy meal is, ask someone who cares about you to help. There are mailing lists all over the internet full of people who are caring and love to help other people in any way they can. Also, there are websites dedicated specifically to recipes and healthy eating. Plan to exercise, and decide when, where, and what, before the fact, such as at the same time you are deciding your menus. Choose something you normally enjoy doing, even though you may not feel like doing it right now. Don’t take "no" for an answer. If you normally work-out alone, consider inviting a friend to do it with you, at least the first day. Exercise will help detoxify your body faster, improve your outlook, and put a spring back in your step. Even so, don’t be tempted to pull out your whip and work-out two or three times a day for several days trying to undo the damage from the binge. If you normally exercise Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, for example, but your first day back from a binge is a Tuesday, don’t totally undo your life to get a Wednesday work-out on Tuesday. Instead, do something light on Tuesday, even 20 minutes of walking and some stretching exercises, and then resume your usual exercise program on Wednesday. If your exercise schedule is flexible, then do what is right for you, but don’t overexercise; that amounts to correcting one form of abuse with another. It is so unfair, but I’ve noticed that the morning after a binge I am usually starving. Not good for a person who is wanting to get going in the right direction again. So that first day, I make it a policy to choose one or two low-fat or fat-free foods, unsweet, to eat as much of and as often as desired in response to hunger pangs. Suggestions are unbuttered air-popped popcorn (put some low-sodium Tamari or soy sauce in a small pump and spray popcorn for flavor), fat-free rice cakes (preferably not sweet), dry cereal, raw vegetables with or without low-fat/fat-free dip, fresh fruit or vegetable broth. Eating three or four pieces of fruit over the course of the day can help ease sugar withdrawals somewhat. Do not succumb to the temptation to take away food from your meals to compensate for all the "free" food you’ve nibbled on–remember, you gave yourself permission to eat it. Tomorrow, the "free" food goes. Drink lots and lots of water. Shoot for a minimum of 64 ounces a day (roughly 8 tall glasses). This will help flush out toxins, clean out your digestive tract, and rehydrate your tissues. Most binges incorporate a lot of sugar and/or sodium, and both are very dehydrating. You should drink this much water anyway, but especially after a binge. Avoid idle time. I don’t have a job outside of my home, so it works good for me, especially that first day, to "lose" myself in a project, especially a physical one, so that the day goes by and I almost forget about eating. Projects that I have used before include yard work, deep housecleaning, reorganizing a closet, going through drawers and getting rid of stuff I don’t need, cleaning out the shed, sanding and painting kitchen cabinets, taking the kids on an adventure, or putting together a puzzle. Other good ideas include taking a nap if you are really tired, making time to visit a friend or loved one if you are feeling lonely, or reading a book for leisure if you need to relax. After the third day of successful healthy eating, assuming you are feeling much of your self-control returned, if you are so inclined, you can do a fast for a few days. Drink water only, or sip on diluted fresh juices or vegetable broth periodically throughout the day. Another option is to eat regular meals, but only fresh raw fruits and vegetables. If you don’t feel up to strenuous exercise during the fast, try brisk walking, if the weather permits, or hop on a treadmill for a while. Fasting will help clean your body and your mind. Extended fasting (more than 3 days) really should only be tackled by persons experienced in fasting. NOTE: If you are currently overcoming a long-standing eating disorder, fasting is not recommended for you at this time. Keep on keepin’ on, and many wonderful blessings to you all!

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The idea that eating less fat leads to reduced breast cancer recurrence has been disproved. Dietary factors and the survival of women with breast carcinoma. Holmes MD, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA, Rosner B, Hunter DJ, Willett WC. Channing Laboratory, Department of Medicine, Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts, USA. CONCLUSIONS: No survival advantage was found for a low fat diet after a diagnosis of breast carcinoma. PMID: 10463982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Disproved is a strong term. The study failed to find a correlation, but that is not really the same as proving that there is no correlation. An argument could be made that the study reported yesterday was a better one, in that the older Boston study involved food surveys filled out by subjects who chose there own diet, while the new one involved random assignment of patients to groups given either a low fat or unmodified diet. I noticed in yesterday’s New York Times article discussing the new study, one of the authors of the Boston study cited seems to agree that the new research is promising. He doesn’t sound like he regards the link as disproved: "This is potentially very good news," said Dr. David Hunter, a professor of cancer prevention at the Harvard School of Public Health. "Anything that could be done about reducing breast cancer recurrence would be enormously valuable." Paul, which study are you referring to? Do you have a link to it?

This was presented by the authors at this year’s ASCO meeting and widely reported Monday and Tuesday, but isn’t published yet. The abstract is at: http://www.asco.org/ac/1,1003,_12-002643-00_18-0034-00_19-0031414,00.asp The New York Times story is at: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/health/17cancer.html The principal author, Dr. Rowan T. Chlebowski, has a splendidly Googlable name. I would have to grant that not being published yet is a negative, but this is a large study by established researchers being presented at the annual meeting of the oncologists’ professional society, so I presume it is on its way to publication. That’s not to say its conclusion is right, but it at least looks like respectable science, not something on the fringe. — Paul Turner

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe I’m missing something here, but I thought for years they’d been telling us that eating too much animal fat raises the risk of getting one of the oestrogen related cancers, of which breast cancer is a major example.  I remember noticing this as cream and butter have always been binge foods for me:( I may be wrong ‘coz I’m not a big follower of celeb news but Linda McCartney died of breast cancer even though she was a famous vegetarian, she couldn’t have eaten much animal fat, unless she was lacto-ovo & also liked to binge on cream and butter… Apparently, breast cancer does not have much to do with the amount of fat eaten.

Well then, that’s good news for me given my past history. janice

Response:

Maybe I’m missing something here, but I thought for years they’d been telling us that eating too much animal fat raises the risk of getting one of the oestrogen related cancers, of which breast cancer is a major example.  I remember noticing this as cream and butter have always been binge foods for me:( I may be wrong ‘coz I’m not a big follower of celeb news but Linda McCartney died of breast cancer even though she was a famous vegetarian, she couldn’t have eaten much animal fat, unless she was lacto-ovo & also liked to binge on cream and butter…

Err…..yes, but I would never assume that because something might increase the risk of any illness or disease, this then means that those who avoid whatever it is won’t get the illness or disease.  I wish life was that simple. janice

Response:

The idea that eating less fat leads to reduced breast cancer recurrence has been disproved. Dietary factors and the survival of women with breast carcinoma. Holmes MD, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA, Rosner B, Hunter DJ, Willett WC. Channing Laboratory, Department of Medicine, Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts, USA. CONCLUSIONS: No survival advantage was found for a low fat diet after a diagnosis of breast carcinoma. PMID: 10463982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Disproved is a strong term. The study failed to find a correlation, but that is not really the same as proving that there is no correlation. An argument could be made that the study reported yesterday was a better one, in that the older Boston study involved food surveys filled out by subjects who chose there own diet, while the new one involved random assignment of patients to groups given either a low fat or unmodified diet. I noticed in yesterday’s New York Times article discussing the new study, one of the authors of the Boston study cited seems to agree that the new research is promising. He doesn’t sound like he regards the link as disproved: "This is potentially very good news," said Dr. David Hunter, a professor of cancer prevention at the Harvard School of Public Health. "Anything that could be done about reducing breast cancer recurrence would be enormously valuable." — Paul Turner

Response:

Maybe I’m missing something here, but I thought for years they’d been telling us that eating too much animal fat raises the risk of getting one of the oestrogen related cancers, of which breast cancer is a major example.  I remember noticing this as cream and butter have always been binge foods for me:( I may be wrong ‘coz I’m not a big follower of celeb news but Linda McCartney died of breast cancer even though she was a famous vegetarian, she couldn’t have eaten much animal fat, unless she was lacto-ovo & also liked to binge on cream and butter…

Being in good shape and eating healthy only help in preventing diseases, it’s not a guarantee against them.  I have a friend who doesn’t have an ounce of fat on his body, runs daily and suffered a massive heart attack in his late 50’s.  Heart disease runs in his family but most of them had problems in their late 30’s and early 40’s.  He figures his healthy lifestyle delayed his problems.  It also helped him recover quickly.  He’s now in his early 70’s and still going strong.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw the article on low-fat diets helping to prevent the recurrence of breast cancer.  I wondered if avoiding fat would also help to reduce the risk of developing breast cancer and not just in preventing it’s recurrence? http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_June/ai_863875 65 Matthew

Thanks Matthew.

Response:

Maybe I’m missing something here, but I thought for years they’d been telling us that eating too much animal fat raises the risk of getting one of the oestrogen related cancers, of which breast cancer is a major example.  I remember noticing this as cream and butter have always been binge foods for me:( I may be wrong ‘coz I’m not a big follower of celeb news but Linda McCartney died of breast cancer even though she was a famous vegetarian, she couldn’t have eaten much animal fat, unless she was lacto-ovo & also liked to binge on cream and butter…

Thus my previous point about there being different types of breast cancer. I know a few women who have had breast cancer that were active, fit, and lead very healthy lifestyles with a proper diet.  There’s no guarantee that regardless of how you live/eat/etc. that you still won’t end up with it. — the volleyballchick

Response:

Maybe I’m missing something here, but I thought for years they’d been telling us that eating too much animal fat raises the risk of getting one of the oestrogen related cancers, of which breast cancer is a major example.  I remember noticing this as cream and butter have always been binge foods for me:(

I may be wrong ‘coz I’m not a big follower of celeb news but Linda McCartney died of breast cancer even though she was a famous vegetarian, she couldn’t have eaten much animal fat, unless she was lacto-ovo & also liked to binge on cream and butter…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw the article on low-fat diets helping to prevent the recurrence of breast cancer.  I wondered if avoiding fat would also help to reduce the risk of developing breast cancer and not just in preventing it’s recurrence?  Breast cancer has hit several women on my father’s side of the family.  My aunt has been a breast cancer survivor for several years and I know she drastically changed her diet afterward.  She also added exercise.  She’s now in her early 70’s and looks and feels great. Maybe I’m missing something here, but I thought for years they’d been telling us that eating too much animal fat raises the risk of getting one of the oestrogen related cancers, of which breast cancer is a major example.  I remember noticing this as cream and butter have always been binge foods for me:( janice

There does seem to be some connection and a very recent study showed that women on a lower fat diet had a smaller percentage of recurrence though it was stated that it could be just because of the types of food they were eating (more fruits and vegs and less red meat) which had already been shown to have a relationship with the disease. I’m sure it also has to do with the type of breast cancer since there is more than one kind out there. — the volleyballchick

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I saw the article on low-fat diets helping to prevent the recurrence of breast cancer.  I wondered if avoiding fat would also help to reduce the risk of developing breast cancer and not just in preventing it’s recurrence?  Breast cancer has hit several women on my father’s side of the family.  My aunt has been a breast cancer survivor for several years and I know she drastically changed her diet afterward.  She also added exercise.  She’s now in her early 70’s and looks and feels great.

Maybe I’m missing something here, but I thought for years they’d been telling us that eating too much animal fat raises the risk of getting one of the oestrogen related cancers, of which breast cancer is a major example.  I remember noticing this as cream and butter have always been binge foods for me:( janice

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I call the diet discribed above "Atkins-Plus" … you avoid all the carbs described by Atkins, plus you avoid Red Meat too … White Meat is much healthier …

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My advice: Stop eating fast food and desserts which are loaded with fats and refined sugar. In fact, stop eating simple carbs, i.e. refined sugar and white flour alltogether. If you don’t eat fried foods and red meat, you should have no problem controlling your fat to well under 40% or perhaps even 25%.

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I saw the article on low-fat diets helping to prevent the recurrence of breast cancer.  I wondered if avoiding fat would also help to reduce the risk of developing breast cancer and not just in preventing it’s recurrence? http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_June/ai_863875 65

The recent study that was released yesterday showed that the women in the lower fat group ate more fruits and vegetables and less RED MEAT which may have contributed to the results of the study since that’s already a known factor in lowering breast cancer risk.  So let’s summarize based on past statements regarding bc prevention:  cutting back on fatty red meat: bad, anorexia: good.  It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the troll. — the volleyballchick

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you may want to actually check out calorie content of, say, short ribs trimmed to 1/4" fat. 100 grams contains 383 calories, 288 of them coming from fat. Most of the fat in short ribs is not "saturated", contrary to popular beliefs. Very tasty stuff and easy to cook. A store near us sells them for $1.99 per lb. The ratio of unsaturated:saturated fat in short ribs is roughly close to 1:1. The AHA–among other organizations–recommends a ratio closer to 2:1. But even then, ratios are not the whole story. If I choose 100 grams of eye of round trimmed of all fat I would get only 5 grams of fat compared to the 30+ grams in short ribs. Matthew

Eye of round is a much better choice.  I don’t eat a lot of beef but I do buy eye of round when I want to fix a steak of the grill.  I prefer fish more than beef.  Of course we have to consider the risk of mercury in fish  I’m beginning to wonder about our food sources.  We hear almost daily about health hazards from our food sources.  Guess I’ll just pick the lowest risk items. I couldn’t find the recent article on additives in beef but here’s an older one.  It indicates many of the harmful additives are concentrated in the fat area. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2001_Oct/ai_78900860 Beverly

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I saw the article on low-fat diets helping to prevent the recurrence of breast cancer.  I wondered if avoiding fat would also help to reduce the risk of developing breast cancer and not just in preventing it’s recurrence?

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_June/ai_863875 65 Matthew

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you may want to actually check out calorie content of, say, short ribs trimmed to 1/4" fat. 100 grams contains 383 calories, 288 of them coming from fat. Most of the fat in short ribs is not "saturated", contrary to popular beliefs. Very tasty stuff and easy to cook. A store near us sells them for $1.99 per lb.

The ratio of unsaturated:saturated fat in short ribs is roughly close to 1:1. The AHA–among other organizations–recommends a ratio closer to 2:1. But even then, ratios are not the whole story. If I choose 100 grams of eye of round trimmed of all fat I would get only 5 grams of fat compared to the 30+ grams in short ribs. Matthew

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok. Nobody makes meat their staple food, certainly not anyone sensable. There’s just no way you would eat a pound of meat and still enjoy it. I suppose that 154 bananas are easier to eat. And besides very few meat has more than 60% calories in fat. 40% is very high in fat … you could still eat a lot of meat and achieve lower than that … It seems Americans are drinking oil! you may want to actually check out calorie content of, say, short ribs trimmed to 1/4" fat. 100 grams contains 383 calories, 288 of them coming from fat. Most of the fat in short ribs is not "saturated", contrary to popular beliefs. Very tasty stuff and easy to cook. A store near us sells them for $1.99 per lb. — 223/174.8/180 According to www.nutritiondata.com short ribs is one of the beef varieites highest in saturated fat.  There are much better selections of beef that contain less saturated fats.  Most diets recommend limiting saturated fats.  It’s probably better all around if someone chooses to consume healthier fats and avoid saturated fats. http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-013016000000000000000.html Not only that, but most red meats like that are the primary source of saturated fat in a typical diet.  Just because there are other kinds of fat in it, even if it is a higher amount, doesn’t make it good for you. It’s just another way of distorting the facts to mask the truth  - typical of this poster. Very recent studies are showing that it’s not always the saturated fat but where it’s coming from and what you eat with it that makes it less healthy. Yesterday a new study came out that showed low fat diets help prevent recurrence of breast cancer.  But hey, if people want to load up on their fat they should feel free – just don’t whine when the pounds start coming on or when worse things happen down the road. — the volleyballchick

I saw the article on low-fat diets helping to prevent the recurrence of breast cancer.  I wondered if avoiding fat would also help to reduce the risk of developing breast cancer and not just in preventing it’s recurrence?  Breast cancer has hit several women on my father’s side of the family.  My aunt has been a breast cancer survivor for several years and I know she drastically changed her diet afterward.  She also added exercise.  She’s now in her early 70’s and looks and feels great. I also heard a report recently that indicated the fatty area of meat is where they find the highest concentration of additives such as antibiotics, etc from the animal’s diet.   Beverly

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok. Nobody makes meat their staple food, certainly not anyone sensable. There’s just no way you would eat a pound of meat and still enjoy it. I suppose that 154 bananas are easier to eat. And besides very few meat has more than 60% calories in fat. 40% is very high in fat … you could still eat a lot of meat and achieve lower than that … It seems Americans are drinking oil! you may want to actually check out calorie content of, say, short ribs trimmed to 1/4" fat. 100 grams contains 383 calories, 288 of them coming from fat. Most of the fat in short ribs is not "saturated", contrary to popular beliefs. Very tasty stuff and easy to cook. A store near us sells them for $1.99 per lb. — 223/174.8/180

According to www.nutritiondata.com short ribs is one of the beef varieites highest in saturated fat.  There are much better selections of beef that contain less saturated fats.  Most diets recommend limiting saturated fats.  It’s probably better all around if someone chooses to consume healthier fats and avoid saturated fats. http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-013016000000000000000.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok. Nobody makes meat their staple food, certainly not anyone sensable. There’s just no way you would eat a pound of meat and still enjoy it. I suppose that 154 bananas are easier to eat. And besides very few meat has more than 60% calories in fat. 40% is very high in fat … you could still eat a lot of meat and achieve lower than that … It seems Americans are drinking oil! you may want to actually check out calorie content of, say, short ribs trimmed to 1/4" fat. 100 grams contains 383 calories, 288 of them coming from fat. Most of the fat in short ribs is not "saturated", contrary to popular beliefs. Very tasty stuff and easy to cook. A store near us sells them for $1.99 per lb. — 223/174.8/180 According to www.nutritiondata.com short ribs is one of the beef varieites highest in saturated fat.  There are much better selections of beef that contain less saturated fats.  Most diets recommend limiting saturated fats.  It’s probably better all around if someone chooses to consume healthier fats and avoid saturated fats. http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-013016000000000000000.html

Not only that, but most red meats like that are the primary source of saturated fat in a typical diet.  Just because there are other kinds of fat in it, even if it is a higher amount, doesn’t make it good for you.   It’s just another way of distorting the facts to mask the truth  - typical of this poster. Very recent studies are showing that it’s not always the saturated fat but where it’s coming from and what you eat with it that makes it less healthy. Yesterday a new study came out that showed low fat diets help prevent recurrence of breast cancer.  But hey, if people want to load up on their fat they should feel free – just don’t whine when the pounds start coming on or when worse things happen down the road. — the volleyballchick

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I just read that the standard American diet is about 40% fat, but how do they consume so much fat!?!? Even if you ate a lot of red meat and dairy products which can be about 50% fat, there’s just no way. And certainly nobody uses a s***load of cooking oils. I’m very confused about that.

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Ok. Nobody makes meat their staple food, certainly not anyone sensable. There’s just no way you would eat a pound of meat and still enjoy it. And besides very few meat has more than 60% calories in fat. 40% is very high in fat … you could still eat a lot of meat and achieve lower than that … It seems Americans are drinking oil!

Response:

Ok. Nobody makes meat their staple food, certainly not anyone sensable. There’s just no way you would eat a pound of meat and still enjoy it. And besides very few meat has more than 60% calories in fat. 40% is very high in fat … you could still eat a lot of meat and achieve lower than that … It seems Americans are drinking oil!

Listed percentages of fat content on meat is by weight, not calories.  But a gram of fat is 9 calories, while a gram of protein is 4 calories.  Hence the difference.

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I just read that the standard American diet is about 40% fat, but how do they consume so much fat!?!? Even if you ate a lot of red meat and dairy products which can be about 50% fat, there’s just no way. And certainly nobody uses a s***load of cooking oils. I’m very confused about that.

There are a couple of ways Americans over consume fat. One big one is in eating fastfoods. At this website you can do a search of say sandwiches/fat content per grams/from higher to lower and get a Hardees Bacon Double Cheeseburger with 96grams of fat! When you consider that most people eat maybe 20-30grams of fat for a whole DAY, its way too much in one sitting.  http://www.foodfacts.info/index.shtml Then another place fats are overeaten is of course in desserts(icecream, cakes cookies, etc) and of course chocolate candies. Hellooooo butter is a fat, its not just red meat or cooking oils! Then there is snack foods like chips, nachos, etc and mayo and CHEESE! OMG! no wonder we overeat fats! Its everywhere in everything – processed that is. Now if only we ate more vegetables and fruits … joanne

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Question:

May 10, 2005, 5:00am From: matt…@dontspamme.puckertoe.com (Matt) Hi Juanita, I really appreciate the words of encouragement. They’re so helpful right now. I guess I need to go through the necessary process of accepting this. I was diagnosed with type 2b/2c My NP said is was not uncommon to have two strains. My VL was 1.57mil before the treatment, and now it’s 833. I wonder how long it takes to get back to that level again? My dr checked my VL once halfway through treatment and it was positive for SVR. That’s why I’m so crushed when SVR was negative this time around. Anyway, thanks again.

Question:

"Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

Like Alias said, a low-fat diet can really help.  Tell her to try the Weight Watcher’s 25-point diet to help keep track of it at first.  It’s easy. A regular vitamin-mineral supplement with no iron.  I take the Wal-Mart equivalent to Centrum Silver. Make it clear to friends, co-workers, and whoever else that her energy is limited due to the HCV.  Take a stand and stick to it.  People will quickly respect her requests not to give her too much to do.  One of my favorite responses is, "I’ll do my best, but I’m really running out of gas."  They know I mean it.  Conversely, I also tell them when I’m feeling really good and try to do a bit extra at those times. Since Katie doesn’t seem to be one to shirk her responsibilities, I think it might be time to gently let others know she does have limitations.

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In article <xQOee.27339$0X6.19535@edtnps90>,  "Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonshine.net> wrote: > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > > Hi guys, > > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > > be appreciated. > > Mom > Hi Mom, > Has she seen her doc about the fatigue? Is her fatigue from her busy > schedule? Is she getting lots of sleep? Someone else suggested she look at > her diet; this is a good place to start.

It might not be applicable but when I’m running at full throttle I find I am MUCH better off eating small amounts of food all day long instead of three larger meals.  Continuous energy and less after-meal tiredness. G

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"Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

Hello I had a very long wait between being diagnosed and actually atarting tratment, about 6 years.  Early on I had really bad fatigue problems, to the extent that I had to stop driving.  I made significant lifestyle changes, stopped smoking, drinking, got my diet in order and started a good exercise program. To get over the initial hump of the fatigue I visited a TCM practitioner, within three days of taking herbs I found that my energy levels had lifted. The TCM lifted my energy enough to enebale me to make the lifestyle changes. I stuck with herbs for a couple of months but eventually the lifestyle became self sustaining. If you are thinking about trying Traditional Chinese Medicine then make sure you find a pucka practitioner. Jonathan

Response:

"Thip" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:3e22ebFrqk4U1@individual.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom > Like Alias said, a low-fat diet can really help.  Tell her to try the > Weight Watcher’s 25-point diet to help keep track of it at first.  It’s > easy. > A regular vitamin-mineral supplement with no iron.  I take the Wal-Mart > equivalent to Centrum Silver. > Make it clear to friends, co-workers, and whoever else that her energy is > limited due to the HCV.  Take a stand and stick to it.  People will > quickly respect her requests not to give her too much to do.  One of my > favorite responses is, "I’ll do my best, but I’m really running out of > gas."  They know I mean it.  Conversely, I also tell them when I’m feeling > really good and try to do a bit extra at those times. Since Katie doesn’t > seem to be one to shirk her responsibilities, I think it might be time to > gently let others know she does have limitations.

Thank you all for your replies. I am forwarding them to her right now. They all were wonderful and really good ideas to help her combat this fatigue. As far as her starting treatment I know she is considering it and weighing it heavily. She knows her limitaions and what she can handle and I am sure she won’t do it until she feels she is 100% ready emotionally. A few of her friends are going through it right now so she has the advantage of seeing first hand the side effects. Her boyfriends mother is dying of sinus cancer. She is younger than I am and found out last week it is spreading. Katie realizes right now her starting treatment could be more than her boyfriend can deal with and she will need his support. So, until she makes the ultimate decision to go through with this your suggestions will help lessen her exhaustion. WS, to your question does she get enough sleep? Yes, she sleeps a full night every night and generally takes a nap everyday. She has to. Her boyfriend is great. Even though he doesn’t have Hep-C he takes her nap with her everyday. She does however keep a very busy schedule. Thank you all again and hugs back to you Anja. You always seem to pop in when I need you! You are all great. Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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On Sat, 7 May 2005 02:51:57 -0400, "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net>, in message ID <VrKdnbORMssS-OHfRVn…@adelphia.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >Thank you all for your replies. I am forwarding them to her right now. They >all were wonderful and really good ideas to help her combat this fatigue. >As far as her starting treatment I know she is considering it and weighing >it heavily. She knows her limitaions and what she can handle and I am sure >she won’t do it until she feels she is 100% ready emotionally. A few of her >friends are going through it right now so she has the advantage of seeing >first hand the side effects. Her boyfriends mother is dying of sinus cancer. >She is younger than I am and found out last week it is spreading. Katie >realizes right now her starting treatment could be more than her boyfriend >can deal with and she will need his support. So, until she makes the >ultimate decision to go through with this your suggestions will help lessen >her exhaustion.

From what I’ve seen of people doing tx, it’s probably a good idea for her to be drug free for at least a couple of years before doing it. This doesn’t apply if it’s medically urgent that she does tx of course. Some people do tx while still using of course.  No problem with that either IMO as long as they’ve been educated about not sharing equipment to avoid re-infection. — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

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"Paul" <dontspa…@westgreen.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message

news:e2qo715mc8p6v6fuohhkndb1s8so9670fl@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sat, 7 May 2005 02:51:57 -0400, "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net>, in > message ID <VrKdnbORMssS-OHfRVn…@adelphia.com>, in the newsgroup > alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >>Thank you all for your replies. I am forwarding them to her right now. >>They >>all were wonderful and really good ideas to help her combat this fatigue. >>As far as her starting treatment I know she is considering it and weighing >>it heavily. She knows her limitaions and what she can handle and I am sure >>she won’t do it until she feels she is 100% ready emotionally. A few of >>her >>friends are going through it right now so she has the advantage of seeing >>first hand the side effects. Her boyfriends mother is dying of sinus >>cancer. >>She is younger than I am and found out last week it is spreading. Katie >>realizes right now her starting treatment could be more than her boyfriend >>can deal with and she will need his support. So, until she makes the >>ultimate decision to go through with this your suggestions will help >>lessen >>her exhaustion. > From what I’ve seen of people doing tx, it’s probably a good idea for > her to be drug free for at least a couple of years before doing it. > This doesn’t apply if it’s medically urgent that she does tx of > course. > Some people do tx while still using of course.  No problem with that > either IMO as long as they’ve been educated about not sharing > equipment to avoid re-infection. > — > Paul

Thanks Paul, That is something that scares me a bit too. She has only been clean for a little less than a year but I have full confidence that Katie will not do treatment until she feels 100% ready. When Katie is clean and sober she has a very good head on her shoulders. She must take after her old man. Ha! Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Use the reply by email facility in your > newsreader to send email

Response:

"rasputin" <ras.pu…@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:d5ho0f$rpv$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom > Hello > I had a very long wait between being diagnosed and actually atarting > tratment, about 6 years.  Early on I had really bad fatigue problems, to > the extent that I had to stop driving.  I made significant lifestyle > changes, stopped smoking, drinking, got my diet in order and started a > good exercise program. > To get over the initial hump of the fatigue I visited a TCM practitioner, > within three days of taking herbs I found that my energy levels had > lifted. The TCM lifted my energy enough to enebale me to make the > lifestyle changes. I stuck with herbs for a couple of months but > eventually the lifestyle became self sustaining. > If you are thinking about trying Traditional Chinese Medicine then make > sure you find a pucka practitioner. > Jonathan

Thanks Jonathon, I’ll pass this on. I agree quitting smoking would help tremendously. One thing at at time though. I’m just happy right now that she managed to quit the other thing. Thank God she doesn’t drink. Hates the stuff. Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

On Sat, 7 May 2005 03:22:04 -0400, "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net>, in message ID <ttadnXgvd_oD8eHfRVn…@adelphia.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >That is something that scares me a bit too. She has only been clean for a >little less than a year but I have full confidence that Katie will not do >treatment until she feels 100% ready. When Katie is clean and sober she has >a very good head on her shoulders. She must take after her old man. Ha!

Maybe her mother has got something to do with that too.  :-) — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

Response:

Hi Russ, I really don’t think that is it. She seems very happy but you never know…………….. Some thing to think about. Thanks. Mom "Russ" <sourdo55 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:117vaqeh6gq8b45@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Perhaps some depression going on???? > — > Russ > Visit Alaska @ http://www.tannersacre.com > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:o4-dnY0BKptvUuffRVn-gw@adelphia.com… >> "Cactus Jammies" <n…@joshuatree.nemor> wrote in message >> news:gByee.42467$HR1.14017@clgrps12… >> > does she have things to do that get her out of the house, or constantly >> > threaten to do so?  I know that even anticipating a period in public, >> > trying to cope in bank line ups and the like, can be extremely > distressing >> > before you set out.  So it is nice to not have to consider mustering > some >> > kind of spunk to get out on the street, or else dread it, just the >> > same. >> > Be sure she gets her fruit and carbs in the mornings.  And hang on, >> > keep >> > swimming.  She is young,  she should be able to handle this stuff and >> > skateboard across Kansas, too!  8-) >> > Cactus Jammies >> Hi CJ, >> She is very active, She works 40 hours a week and goes to AA meetings 5 >> nights a week. She sponsors 2 girls and meets with them on a regular > basis. >> Like I said she is a real trooper but she is so tired all of the time. > I’ll >> suggest she look at her diet. >> Mom >> > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message >> > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… >> >> Hi guys, >> >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired > all >> >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the >> >> fatigue >> >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen >> >> it >> >> would be appreciated. >> >> Mom

Response:

Perhaps some depression going on???? — Russ Visit Alaska @ http://www.tannersacre.com "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:o4-dnY0BKptvUuffRVn-gw@adelphia.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Cactus Jammies" <n…@joshuatree.nemor> wrote in message > news:gByee.42467$HR1.14017@clgrps12… > > does she have things to do that get her out of the house, or constantly > > threaten to do so?  I know that even anticipating a period in public, > > trying to cope in bank line ups and the like, can be extremely distressing > > before you set out.  So it is nice to not have to consider mustering some > > kind of spunk to get out on the street, or else dread it, just the same. > > Be sure she gets her fruit and carbs in the mornings.  And hang on, keep > > swimming.  She is young,  she should be able to handle this stuff and > > skateboard across Kansas, too!  8-) > > Cactus Jammies > Hi CJ, > She is very active, She works 40 hours a week and goes to AA meetings 5 > nights a week. She sponsors 2 girls and meets with them on a regular basis. > Like I said she is a real trooper but she is so tired all of the time. I’ll > suggest she look at her diet. > Mom > > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > >> Hi guys, > >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue > >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it > >> would be appreciated. > >> Mom

Response:

"Gordo Mondragon" <ga_mondra…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ga_mondragon-79A04B.21530005052005@nyctyp01-ge0.rdc-nyc.rr.com… > In article <L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn…@adelphia.com>, > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote: >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of >> the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is >> there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would >> be appreciated. > Is she on treatment, or chronic Hep C? > G

Hi Gordo, She is not on treatment yet. Chronis Hep-C at this point. Mom

Response:

Mom wrote: > "Gordo Mondragon" <ga_mondra…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ga_mondragon-79A04B.21530005052005@nyctyp01-ge0.rdc-nyc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > In article <L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn…@adelphia.com>, > > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote: > >> Hi guys, > >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > >> of > >> the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > >> there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it > >> would > >> be appreciated. > > Is she on treatment, or chronic Hep C? > > G > Hi Gordo, > She is not on treatment yet. Chronis Hep-C at this point. > Mom

I’m sorry to hear that mom. Yogic breathing and movement help balance your energy. Propably some of the lying down poses and Twists, they are helpful for cleansing the liver.  www.yogajournal.com there are also poses to relive fatigue also relax before bed. Peace, MaryANn

Response:

"Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… > Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

Hi Mom, Has she seen her doc about the fatigue? Is her fatigue from her busy schedule? Is she getting lots of sleep? Someone else suggested she look at her diet; this is a good place to start. Is her diet balanced? Lots of fresh fruit and veggies? Wouldn’t hurt to cut out the red meat. Sugar gives a quick boost of energy but results in tiredness later on. Ditto caffiene. Warn her to stay away from commercial "energy" products that are just a quick sugar jolt. Spirulina, although high in iron, is a bit of an energy booster. Megavitamin dosing is something else that can be dangerous. If the fatigue is from her hep C, maybe it’s time for her to have a serious rethink about treatment. All the best to Katie, and to you too. Spidey

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"Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote in message

news:Ifyee.42719$US.10319@news.ono.com… >I found that consuming as little animal fat as possible in conjunction with >taking Milk Thistle helped reduce the fatigue considerably. I also >recommend substituting soy milk for animal milk whenever possible. > Alias

Thanks Cody. I will relay this to her. Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom

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"Cactus Jammies" <n…@joshuatree.nemor> wrote in message

news:gByee.42467$HR1.14017@clgrps12… > does she have things to do that get her out of the house, or constantly > threaten to do so?  I know that even anticipating a period in public, > trying to cope in bank line ups and the like, can be extremely distressing > before you set out.  So it is nice to not have to consider mustering some > kind of spunk to get out on the street, or else dread it, just the same. > Be sure she gets her fruit and carbs in the mornings.  And hang on, keep > swimming.  She is young,  she should be able to handle this stuff and > skateboard across Kansas, too!  8-) > Cactus Jammies

Hi CJ, She is very active, She works 40 hours a week and goes to AA meetings 5 nights a week. She sponsors 2 girls and meets with them on a regular basis. Like I said she is a real trooper but she is so tired all of the time. I’ll suggest she look at her diet. Mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message > news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom

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In article <L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn…@adelphia.com>,  "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote: > Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all of > the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated.

Is she on treatment, or chronic Hep C? G

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does she have things to do that get her out of the house, or constantly threaten to do so?  I know that even anticipating a period in public, trying to cope in bank line ups and the like, can be extremely distressing before you set out.  So it is nice to not have to consider mustering some kind of spunk to get out on the street, or else dread it, just the same.  Be sure she gets her fruit and carbs in the mornings.  And hang on, keep swimming.  She is young,  she should be able to handle this stuff and skateboard across Kansas, too!  8-) Cactus Jammies "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote in message

news:L5OdnVUjl7riMuffRVn-uw@adelphia.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

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Hi guys, I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would be appreciated. Mom

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I found that consuming as little animal fat as possible in conjunction with taking Milk Thistle helped reduce the fatigue considerably. I also recommend substituting soy milk for animal milk whenever possible. Alias "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi guys, > I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all > of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue is > there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it would > be appreciated. > Mom

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Or is she on treatment? If so, scratch the milk thistle advice. Alias "Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I found that consuming as little animal fat as possible in conjunction with >taking Milk Thistle helped reduce the fatigue considerably. I also >recommend substituting soy milk for animal milk whenever possible. > Alias > "Mom" <m…@nospamplease.net> wrote >> Hi guys, >> I need some input to suggest for my Katie. She is so extremely tired all >> of the time. She’s a real trooper and keeps plugging on but the fatigue >> is there and very real. Any suggestions on what she can do to lessen it >> would be appreciated. >> Mom

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Question:

Re: ww and pregnancyYou need to read that site a little more thoroughly.  12 lbs is not enough at all.  Here is a quote from the site. How much weight should I gain if I was overweight when I started my pregnancy? You should gain between 15 and 25 pounds by the end of your pregnancy, at a rate of approximately 2 to 3 pounds a month. (Experts advise women of average weight to gain between 25 and 35 pounds.) As you can see it says 15-25 lbs by the end of the pregnancy if you are overweight.  My OB/GYN advised me who weighed over 225 lbs when I got pregnant all three times to not gain more than 30 lbs.  I will say that I delivered a healthy 8lb 8 oz baby and lost 22 lbs when she was born.  I had gained a total of 28 lbs during the pregnancy and had the remaining 6 lbs off the following week.  It is not a time to lose weight it is a time to maintain the weight you have and gain at a healthy rate so that is all for the baby and not excess being left on your body.  You can not restrict your diet as you will be restricting important nutrients for a growing fetus and you want to have a healthy child more than anything. Debbie   The 25-30 lbs is only for women who are in a healthy weight range when they begin they’re pregnancy. I was about 30lbs overweight when I was pregnant and was advised to only gain about 12 lbs. http://www.babycenter.com has a pregnancy weight calculator if you want more info on acceptable weight gain.   Sarah   198/198/132   If your doctor allows you to stay on program, do that.  Of course you need   the extra milk servings and to increase your points just like you do when   you are breastfeeding.  The main thing is to maintain  your weight while you   are pregnant, not lose large amounts of weight.  As you can see from my   results that is what happened.  I gained the recommended amount for  healthy   pregnancy of 25-30 lbs.  You are not eating for two, you are a healthy diet   to maintain the pregnancy and deliver a healthy baby.   hi all     this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend   ww   meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and   the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby.   i   really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a   toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of   weight   back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant?     —   Mel   ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m   really quite busy.        

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hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant? — Mel ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy.

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Don’t know nowadays,  but i joined WW three years ago, then i fell pregnant within a couple of months. My leader told me that i should not follow WW….Sadly i gained a great deal more weight during and after pregnancy, but now i am on the road to losing it all…20 lbs down since the beginning of the year…:-) As i say it might be different now, but if you are not able to follow WW, just make sure you follow a sensible diet, and do not go nuts like i did…Good luck…:-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant?

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this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and

I don’t think you’re supposed to be on a weight-loss plan while pregnant, no.  Your ob/gyn can probably give you a good eating plan while pregnant, to make sure you get all the necessary nutrition, and then you can try to stick as close to that as necessary, modifying it with your doctor’s help as needed. You *can* be in WW if you’ve already delivered, and you’re nursing. You’ll have slightly different point goals, and you need more calcium, but it can be done.  That may help getting the weight off after the baby’s born.  While the baby’s in, tho, you need to make it as comfy as possible, and unfortunately for you, losing weight isn’t comfy for the baby. But hey, just think, when the kid’s a teenager, you can gripe about not only how long labor was, but how you had to suffer through not dieting and it’s all the kid’s fault Tay

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WW does not allow you to attend if you are preggo. But join now before you join and get all of the info on the program. Show them to your doctor. The core plan might just be what you want to follow while you are pregnant. Being pregnant does not mean that you should eat for 2+ people. Eating healthy can help you keep the weight down. Ask your doctor what changes you need to make to the ww plan so that you can have a healthy gain and a healthy baby. You can still post here or join online (I think) while preggo.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant? — Mel ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and I don’t think you’re supposed to be on a weight-loss plan while pregnant, no.  Your ob/gyn can probably give you a good eating plan while pregnant, to make sure you get all the necessary nutrition, and then you can try to stick as close to that as necessary, modifying it with your doctor’s help as needed. You *can* be in WW if you’ve already delivered, and you’re nursing. You’ll have slightly different point goals, and you need more calcium, but it can be done.  That may help getting the weight off after the baby’s born.  While the baby’s in, tho, you need to make it as comfy as possible, and unfortunately for you, losing weight isn’t comfy for the baby. But hey, just think, when the kid’s a teenager, you can gripe about not only how long labor was, but how you had to suffer through not dieting and it’s all the kid’s fault Tay

A friend of mine was advised to go on maintenance while pregnant: that way she’d only put on baby weight and not fat.  It worked for her. She’d lost all the baby weight by a month after the birth, and breastfed successfully for more than 6 months while losing afterwards.  Ask the docs and your WW leader. — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant?

You can follow the ww program on your own while pregnant, but you can’t be an official member.  One thing you need to remember is that babies need certain *fats* to grow their brains properly, so make sure you keep some quality fats in your diet.  About 60% of the human brain is composed of fat, and you only get one chance to grow a brain, so pregnancy is not the time to be shortchanging yourself on your fat needs.  Please note I’m not saying you need to eat a *high* fat diet, but if you choose to eat a *low* fat diet, make sure to include a couple of tablespoons of Omega-3 and some Omega-6 oils each day for your baby’s brain.  A very low fat pregnancy will *not* harm your baby, but the baby’s brain will not reach it’s maximum potential under such a diet.   Here is a good website that explains the importance of fats in brain development  http://www.fi.edu/brain/fats.htm eggs.

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Weight Watchers current policies do not allow you to continue when you are pregnant.  But back in 1987, when I was a member, it was allowed.  I actually was on plan for about 11 months and lost about 40 lbs before I got pregnant.  I then asked my ob/gyn and he gave me a note to allow me to stay on WW while I was pregnant.  That was all they required back then.  I gained 28 lbs during that pregnancy and had a healthy baby girl weighing in at 8 lb 8 oz and nearly 3 weeks overdue.  It was actually funny as my meeting night was Wednesdays.  I had my daughter on Thursday evening.  I never missed a meeting and weighed in 22 lbs lighter the next week and the other 6 lbs was off the following week.  I continued on while breastfeeding.  Following the program for the nursing mothers. I feel WW policies now do not allow pregnant women to stay on program due to all the law suits that people are nuts about filing these days. If your doctor allows you to stay on program, do that.  Of course you need the extra milk servings and to increase your points just like you do when you are breastfeeding.  The main thing is to maintain  your weight while you are pregnant, not lose large amounts of weight.  As you can see from my results that is what happened.  I gained the recommended amount for  healthy pregnancy of 25-30 lbs.  You are not eating for two, you are a healthy diet to maintain the pregnancy and deliver a healthy baby. At this point, before you start trying, make sure you are getting a sufficient amount of folic acid.  That is crucial to having a healthy baby and it is needed even before you get pregnant. Debbie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant? — Mel ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy.

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thanks to everybody that replied you’ve all given me somewhere to start. I’m at ww now and have lost 20.5 now.  I’m doing the no count plan where i eat 3 healthy meals a day.  i think it may be still able to do that as i feel no count is not really a diet.  It stops you eating rubbish and makes me cook proper healthy meals as no processed food is allowed.  so when it happens i think i will take my no count plan to midwife and see what she says.  i think i may be all right with it just maybe need to add back proper milk etc.  i don’t think it’ll do a baby any harm if i snack on fruit all day as i do now instead of a bar of chocolate.  i used to now a girl who lost 4 stone while pregnant as she ate better while she was pregnant than when she wasn’t! — Mel 275.5/255/247.5 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Someone said it already but just make sure to eat some healthy fats !! that baby need a healthy brain ;o) — Will~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks to everybody that replied you’ve all given me somewhere to start. I’m at ww now and have lost 20.5 now.  I’m doing the no count plan where i eat 3 healthy meals a day.  i think it may be still able to do that as i feel no count is not really a diet.  It stops you eating rubbish and makes me cook proper healthy meals as no processed food is allowed.  so when it happens i think i will take my no count plan to midwife and see what she says.  i think i may be all right with it just maybe need to add back proper milk etc.  i don’t think it’ll do a baby any harm if i snack on fruit all day as i do now instead of a bar of chocolate.  i used to now a girl who lost 4 stone while pregnant as she ate better while she was pregnant than when she wasn’t! — Mel 275.5/255/247.5

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thanks to everybody that replied you’ve all given me somewhere to start. I’m at ww now and have lost 20.5 now.  I’m doing the no count plan where i eat 3 healthy meals a day.  i think it may be still able to do that as i feel no count is not really a diet.  It stops you eating rubbish and makes me cook proper healthy meals as no processed food is allowed.  so when it happens i think i will take my no count plan to midwife and see what she says.  i think i may be all right with it just maybe need to add back proper milk etc.  i don’t think it’ll do a baby any harm if i snack on fruit all day as i do now instead of a bar of chocolate.  i used to now a girl who lost 4 stone while pregnant as she ate better while she was pregnant than when she wasn’t!

Don’t worry about going back to full fat milk: skimmed milk has more protein and calcium per pint as there are no fat molecules to bulk it out! See if you can talk it through with a friendly midwife and/or dietitian before you get preggy, and then you know what you have to look forward to!  :) — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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The 25-30 lbs is only for women who are in a healthy weight range when they begin they’re pregnancy. I was about 30lbs overweight when I was pregnant and was advised to only gain about 12 lbs. http://www.babycenter.com has a pregnancy weight calculator if you want more info on acceptable weight gain. Sarah 198/198/132 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If your doctor allows you to stay on program, do that.  Of course you need the extra milk servings and to increase your points just like you do when you are breastfeeding.  The main thing is to maintain  your weight while you are pregnant, not lose large amounts of weight.  As you can see from my results that is what happened.  I gained the recommended amount for  healthy pregnancy of 25-30 lbs.  You are not eating for two, you are a healthy diet to maintain the pregnancy and deliver a healthy baby. hi all this is a rhetorical question at the moment but are you allowed to attend ww meeting if you are pregnant.  one of the reasons i joined ww this year and the gym was because my husband and i are were talking about having a baby. i really didn’t want to contemplate being pregnant and 19 stone or having a toddler and being very unfit. but i also don’t want to pile loads of weight back on being pregnant.  so can you still follow ww while being pregnant? — Mel ** It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy.

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Question:

I don’t like BMIs.  If I ever weighed what mine says I should for my height and age I would be skin and bones.  Was around that when I was younger and was actually told by doc to gain weight cause I was getting malnourished.  Stress makes me eat, but depression makes me not eat and I was depressed about a failed marriage and the baby blues.  Soon though I was back where I belongs and actually stayed at a good weight for about 10 years until my second son was born.  Then between losing my parents, hubby at the time and having second son, I put on a few p[ounds.  Most of my weight came when I moved from acreage to a 2 BR apartment and then more when I quit smoking.  I now have a house again and some land and am slowly losing what I gained when I quit smoking.  I did shoot up to over 300 in 2000 and through watching what I ate and changing how I ate I was back to 238 when I first joined WW in 2003. Then I stopped the online and tried it on my own and went back to 248. Started back hapazardly in Nov.2004 but really got going when I found this group and am now back to 235.  I do know that with summer coming and gardening starting I will get in more exercise this season.  Now if I can just figure out what to do in the winter so that I can keep the exercise going. Adele – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Said it very well Kate, now I don’t have to. Lucky I don’t have to be looking over my shoulder for that 200+ pounds I lost to hop back on, just have to manage the extra 5 or so I struggle with when holidays and stressors hit. The odd bump up and down is just part of life.  After losing 200, the odd 5 here or there is easier to work off than leave to start a party on your hips! The lovely thing with WW is that chocolate is built in for those of us who need the occasional burst of indulgence or comforting nibble. I have 20 to go to get to a reasonable margin inside the BMI for my height.  I could go a lot lower if I wanted, but I may not choose to. healthy is necessary, skinny isn’t!

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Said it very well Kate, now I don’t have to. Lucky I don’t have to be looking over my shoulder for that 200+ pounds I lost to hop back on, just have to manage the extra 5 or so I struggle with when holidays and stressors hit. — Lesanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re thinking of going on a diet to lose those extra pounds think again. Long-term weight control through dieting is near impossible, for the simple reason is that diets promote only short term solutions not long term. This is why we follow things like Weight Watchers:  NOT a diet, a way of eating healthily for the rest of your life, and getting regular exercise to go with it.  Slow and steady is our way, with re-education and support, not crash crazy dieting and idiotic harangues when we have a less than perfect day. It’s what this group is all about, mate.  Come and join us! — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls (50 lbs gone and counting… ) Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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Said it very well Kate, now I don’t have to. Lucky I don’t have to be looking over my shoulder for that 200+ pounds I lost to hop back on, just have to manage the extra 5 or so I struggle with when holidays and stressors hit.

The odd bump up and down is just part of life.  After losing 200, the odd 5 here or there is easier to work off than leave to start a party on your hips! The lovely thing with WW is that chocolate is built in for those of us who need the occasional burst of indulgence or comforting nibble. I have 20 to go to get to a reasonable margin inside the BMI for my height.  I could go a lot lower if I wanted, but I may not choose to. healthy is necessary, skinny isn’t! — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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If you’re thinking of going on a diet to lose those extra pounds think again. Long-term weight control through dieting is near impossible, for the simple reason is that diets promote only short term solutions not long term.

This is why we follow things like Weight Watchers:  NOT a diet, a way of eating healthily for the rest of your life, and getting regular exercise to go with it.  Slow and steady is our way, with re-education and support, not crash crazy dieting and idiotic harangues when we have a less than perfect day. It’s what this group is all about, mate.  Come and join us! — Kate  XXXXXX  R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls (50 lbs gone and counting… ) Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate’s Pages and explore!

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If you’re thinking of going on a diet to lose those extra pounds think again. Long-term weight control through dieting is near impossible, for the simple reason is that diets promote only short term solutions not long term. After dieting you’ll certainly look lighter on the scales, but in most cases this is because you’ve dumped a few pounds of body fluid and muscle, and not because you’ve lost any significant amounts of body fat. One of the main reasons diets don’t work is because they send the body into starvation mode – a survival mechanism for times when humans faced periods of famine. Cutting back on our energy intake causes the body to lower its metabolic rate, which reduces its ability to burn fat. At the same time, hunger signals increase and we quickly start to crave high energy foods loaded with fats and sugars – the exact foods we are trying to do without! Alarmingly, research has shown that repeated dieting actually makes it harder to lose weight and easier to put it on. This is because when you dump the diet and return to normal eating habits, the drop in metabolic rate caused by the diet means that your old eating habits actually represent an excess in calories. Not only do you regain the fat stores just lost, but you may even gain a bit extra. "Five more reasons to stop dieting"   a.. Diets sap energy – Too little food means not enough      energy for physical activity.   a.. Diets lower your metabolism – Dieting causes your body      to conserve energy, making results harder to achieve.   a.. Diets are unhealthy – A cycle of rapid weight loss      followed by weight gain can lead to a loss of lean tissue      from your body and calcium from your bones. It also      strips the body of essential vitamins and minerals.   a.. Diets make food the enemy – Food provides nourishment      and comfort. Diets can make you afraid to eat, depriving      you of one of life’s pleasures.   a.. Diets cheat your confidence – Going from one failed diet to the next can leave you feeling depressed and create a cycle in which guilt battles against food. Regular physical activity and a healthy, balanced diet aren’t as glamorous as the quick fixes, but they do get better results. Start with one extra exercise session and one less fatty takeaway meal per week, and gradually work towards a lifelong plan for achieving your best weight. If you change the way you eat or exercise to lose weight, ask yourself this question. Can I see myself sticking to this routine for life? If the answer is "no" then its time to change what you’re doing. Any healthy weight loss plan should include the following:   a.. A wide variety of foods.   b.. Regular and enjoyable exercise.   c.. Enough filling foods to avoid constant hunger.   d.. At least 1200 calories a day.   e.. Flexibility for treat foods and social occasions.   f.. A realistic goal of your best weight (not necessarily your lowest weight.) Fact A realistic weight loss is around one to two pounds per week. Fast weight losses are not fat loss but glycogen and water.  If you lose weight quickly then you will probable return back to the weight at which you started as quickly as it was lost. Fiction   a.. Weight loss is quick and simple.   b.. Exercise is not necessary.   c.. Certain exercises can spot reduce.   d.. Carbohydrates (for example, bread, potatoes, rice,             and pasta) are fattening. So the way to lose body fat and maintain muscle is to have a food program for life and more energy output. Increase the amount of fruits, vegetables, non-fat dairy products, whole grains and beans that you eat. Eliminate calorie-dense foods such as cookies, sugary desserts, chips, fries, pizza, candies, crackers etc. Research on people who have successfully lost a lot of weight and kept it off long term, shows that the vast majority succeeded by consuming a low fat diet high in fibre coupled with strength training and cardiovascular activity. These are the basics you’ll need to aim for. A sound weight loss-eating plan should:   a.. Be nutritionally sound, providing all the nutrients you need.   b.. Never promise fast weight losses.   c.. Offer an eating plan based on real food.   d.. Allow you to eat out.   e.. Avoid expensive meal plans, products and supplements.   f.. Not avoid carbohydrate foods, e.g. bread, rice, pasta, cereals and potatoes.   a.. Make gradual dietary changes.   b.. Provide knowledge.   c.. Allow you to eat all foods   d.. Recommend physical activity. Fat calories are more fattening than carbohydrate calories. Your body can easily convert the fat you eat in food into body fat, so to lose weight you need to cut down on fats and foods that contain it. Consider the following steps to reduce fat in your diet.   a.. Use skimmed or skimmed milk in drinks, cooking and on cereals.   b.. Buy a non – stick frying pan.   c.. Buy a cheese slicer   d.. Cut the visible fat from meat.   e.. Eat very little pastry.   f.. Learn how to read a food label.   g.. Substitute low fat yoghurt for cream.   h.. Remove the skin from chicken and turkey.   i.. Eat fruit as snacks rather than eating chocolate and biscuits.   j.. Eat fewer burgers and sausages.   http://www.maximumfitness.com/news.php

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, so I may be imagining this.  Started LC and started losing weight. After a week or so I had felt a burning around all the stomach where there was extra fat.  This sensation stopped when I hit a plateau, about 3 weeks ago. The weight loss now continues steady, after I had raised fat intake and added extra workout. I had also dropped from 20 carbs to about 10. I also stopped Psyllium, which I had taken every night. Thinking I needed extra fiber. But I was worried it was part of the stall so I dropped it. (Was it perhaps?)  The burning around the waist and butt is back. And sure enough, the weight loss started registering again. Pound by pound.  Am I imagining this, or is this something people feel while the losing commences?  About 5 years or so ago, when I lost my first 40 pounds then kept it off, I don’t really remember this feeling.  Is it possibly just the skin trying to shrink? The feeling seems deeper inside.  Any comments please? ___     Best Regards,                  Steve Tout est per

Question:

Been awhile since I’ve posted here, so… Hi! I catch myself saying "I need to check in" and then I never do. Life has been busy as hell for me recently and I actually have to make time to get online. So here I am. As far as my WOE is going, I fallen off the wagon for about 10 weeks now, I got lazy and distracted and ended up putting about 16 lbs back on that I am re-determined to get off. I’ve got the old way of thinking back in my head and I know that I have to stop what I’m doing to myself or it will just make things worse. It started out with excuses in my exercise "too hot, too windy, too cold, too rainy, too busy, too tired, kids need me, hubby needs me, cat needs me" And then carried over into my eating, with excuses like "one more wont hurt, I will change it tomorrow. " A nibble here, a nibble there turns into a full snack, or a overblown meal or simply "screw it, I’m gonna enjoy myself" The bad stuff is back The acid reflex The feeling crappy The skin issues I’ve had most of my life which went away with carb control The sleep patterns being messed up And of course, the weight. I found myself quitting fitday.com all together, I don’t think I’ve posted a full day there in 2.5 months. I feel like I’m lying to myself half the time. I haven’t touched my bike or treadmill in ages. I am truly pissed off at myself for letting this happen, which is catch22 as most of us know. I am scared of what has been happening to me and I know how I can lie to myself and make excuses. I guess I have forgotten how GOOD I felt when the lb’s were dropping off me without as much work as I thought it would be in the beginning. I can’t even cram myself into my jeans I was in at Christmas, which truly makes me mad at myself. I feel awful. I want to blame everything except me, but I know in my heart of hearts that no one can change me (good or bad) but me. The compliments from friends and family are gone, and the knowing looks they pass between themselves when they think I am not seeing them are back, as if to say ‘Suz is getting up there again’ – Grrr. I feel like such a failure. I made some half ass lame attempt to buy the book that ‘Gwendal’ used to recommend to me called Fattitudes and they didn’t have it at Barnes and Noble – and so I let the idea of buying it go the moment they said they didn’t have it. Not that I would have read it anyhow. What is it in our psychological makeup that makes a person do this to themselves, to get off track, to unintentionally sabotage their health and well being? I guess I won’t ever figure that out. So, I am going to spend the remainder of today reviewing my old posts here, and catching up on yall,  revamping fitday.com so that it is current for me. Take some time to do some meal planning that works for both me and my family. I am going to go for a walk this afternoon at the track and do some thinking. Tonight when I get home I am going to weigh/measure and begin anew. I have the tools, I simply have to use them – I am going to keep telling that to myself. Let me serve as a lesson to all of us out there that thought we had "mastered" the art of getting fit and healthy. Thanks Susan 280/184/140

Response:

Hey Susan, Welcome to the club.  (I’m mainly a lurker here, BTW.  You’ve probably never seen me.)  But anyway, I definitely feel your pain … I’ve been a yo-yo dieter since I was 22 (about 13 years ago).  I lost 50 lbs. during the fall of 2002, but gained it back plus more.  I started a low fat diet at the first of the year and have been doing great. Like you, I can’t figure out why I let myself get into this shape.  I knew what I was doing when I was doing it.  Why didn’t I stop myself??  I’ve taken off 30 lbs. since January, but jeez, I have 100 more to go. Good luck to you. -G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been awhile since I’ve posted here, so… Hi! I catch myself saying "I need to check in" and then I never do. Life has been busy as hell for me recently and I actually have to make time to get online. So here I am. As far as my WOE is going, I fallen off the wagon for about 10 weeks now, I got lazy and distracted and ended up putting about 16 lbs back on that I am re-determined to get off. I’ve got the old way of thinking back in my head and I know that I have to stop what I’m doing to myself or it will just make things worse. It started out with excuses in my exercise "too hot, too windy, too cold, too rainy, too busy, too tired, kids need me, hubby needs me, cat needs me" And then carried over into my eating, with excuses like "one more wont hurt, I will change it tomorrow. " A nibble here, a nibble there turns into a full snack, or a overblown meal or simply "screw it, I’m gonna enjoy myself" The bad stuff is back The acid reflex The feeling crappy The skin issues I’ve had most of my life which went away with carb control The sleep patterns being messed up And of course, the weight. I found myself quitting fitday.com all together, I don’t think I’ve posted a full day there in 2.5 months. I feel like I’m lying to myself half the time. I haven’t touched my bike or treadmill in ages. I am truly pissed off at myself for letting this happen, which is catch22 as most of us know. I am scared of what has been happening to me and I know how I can lie to myself and make excuses. I guess I have forgotten how GOOD I felt when the lb’s were dropping off me without as much work as I thought it would be in the beginning. I can’t even cram myself into my jeans I was in at Christmas, which truly makes me mad at myself. I feel awful. I want to blame everything except me, but I know in my heart of hearts that no one can change me (good or bad) but me. The compliments from friends and family are gone, and the knowing looks they pass between themselves when they think I am not seeing them are back, as if to say ‘Suz is getting up there again’ – Grrr. I feel like such a failure. I made some half ass lame attempt to buy the book that ‘Gwendal’ used to recommend to me called Fattitudes and they didn’t have it at Barnes and Noble – and so I let the idea of buying it go the moment they said they didn’t have it. Not that I would have read it anyhow. What is it in our psychological makeup that makes a person do this to themselves, to get off track, to unintentionally sabotage their health and well being? I guess I won’t ever figure that out. So, I am going to spend the remainder of today reviewing my old posts here, and catching up on yall,  revamping fitday.com so that it is current for me. Take some time to do some meal planning that works for both me and my family. I am going to go for a walk this afternoon at the track and do some thinking. Tonight when I get home I am going to weigh/measure and begin anew. I have the tools, I simply have to use them – I am going to keep telling that to myself. Let me serve as a lesson to all of us out there that thought we had "mastered" the art of getting fit and healthy.

Oh Susan, I’m so sorry this has happened to you!  I have experienced each and every one of the emotions and behaviours that you have described here, to the extent that I found it painful to read what you’ve written. I’m not going to say you’ll get back on track, and it’ll all be OK because I can feel by the way you’ve written this that this isn’t what’s going to happen easily for you just now.  I have experience of this sort of losing of motivation leading to putting back all the weight.  I’ve been through it – all the congratulations, feeling good, etc. and then suddenly everyone carefully not mentioning anything about your weight or how you look, and gradually not caring about all the good things I was doing for my body and my health. I’ve also found that after I’ve felt better for a while I forget how bad "the bad stuff" was and I can kid myself that it can’t have been all that bad and it’s OK if I just go back to overeating a bit, and so on…. But you know that there’s a real danger of the gaining continuing and that you have to halt it somehow.   I’m not going to say don’t worry, you won’t put it all back, because I know it is all too easy to do just that.  Have you tried just attempting to stand still, calm down, and accept the 16 lbs just for the moment and concentrate on not gaining any more, but not feeling panicky about the fact that you must lose?  If you could somehow do this until your frame of mind is ready to tackle weight loss, perhaps you could limit the damage this way. We all know here that you’re capable of great strength of purpose, and I do believe you’ll get back to where you are, but IMO putting too much pressure on yourself if you’re not ready could end up leading to more gain. I can only write from my own experience – just ignore everything I’ve said if you can’t relate to it yourself!   I hope you’ll decide to post here a bit, now you’ve told us what has happened, and perhaps we can offer a bit of support. janice

Response:

Hey Susan, Welcome to the club.  (I’m mainly a lurker here, BTW.  You’ve probably never seen me.)  But anyway, I definitely feel your pain … I’ve been a yo-yo dieter since I was 22 (about 13 years ago).  I lost 50 lbs. during the fall of 2002, but gained it back plus more.  I started a low fat diet at the first of the year and have been doing great. Like you, I can’t figure out why I let myself get into this shape.  I knew what I was doing when I was doing it.  Why didn’t I stop myself??  I’ve taken off 30 lbs. since January, but jeez, I have 100 more to go. Good luck to you. -G.

Hi, I am not a yo-yo dieter, or at least I don’t think I was, I had never attempted any eating reform or weightloss plan before I started my WOE about a year and a half ago. I had a good solid workable plan that DID work. I am still about 100 lbs lighter than I was when I started. I just am struggling to find out/remember what clicked that got me back into old habits. I hope that this doesn’t start me on a path of "yo-yo dieting". June of 2005 will be the anniversary of my epiphany that started my changes. Again, I am struggling to remember what exactly triggered that. I guess if I think about it I am still very fortunate that I have 100lbs off of me and I simply need to get back into that frame of mind. But I can see myself in self destruct mode very easy if I let it happen, and to be honest, it WAS/is happening now. I gotta get in control again is all(easier said than done) Good luck with your progress Thanks for the well wishes  Susan 280/184/140 Ig, for some reason my outlook express took your reply to my first post off the server, dunno.. but anyhow.. I haven’t had any bloodwork done, but will schedule something for this week, thanks for the reminder.

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Hi janice, it is good to see you are still as supportive as ever I have missed a.s.d – for sure. It’s very hard to force yourself to read everyone’s good news on here on a daily basis if you yourself are not making good progress. I have to stop that thinking and realize that each and every one of us here have faced similar struggles, maybe not posted them, but we all have the same demons. I think. Maybe everyone is perfect except me lol. As far as where to start. I think that you are correct in starting at simply maintaining where I am right now and re developing my WOE that works for me again. I am going to have to do some critical thinking and disection of my lifestyle and narrow it down to some specifics. Which is not always easy. Being realistically critical of myself and producing workable solutions is not my strong point, obviously. Or I wouldn’t be in the shape that I am in. I also need to calm down a bit and not be so hard on myself, I screwed up. Big deal, fix it and move on, right? The other thing I see happening is I let this spiral until there seems to be alot I have to fix, which in truth is over dramatizing things, another typical thing for me to do to myself – making mountains out of molehills. I also have to remember (sometimes on an hour by hour basis) that only I can do this, good or bad, its ME, MY choices that make the difference and stop blaming MY failures on outside persons/reasons. Some examples of those are I’ve got a huge family to feed and have to cook huge meals. There is nothing "good" or healthy near my work for lunch. I don’t "deserve" those breakfast tacos with sausage/potato/egg/cheese/tortilla that I have for breakfast – I deserve to be good to myself by fueling my body with nutrient dense healthy portions. Right? Right. And of course that list goes on and on. I need to be more assertive in making my food/exercise decisions and quit making excuses to why I "can’t" do things.  I have to be proactive about my goals and what I want to achieve, and I have to not allow events or opinions to sway me from that path. Like I said, I have the tools to do this and do it the right way, I simply have to USE them. If I were still food/exercise ignorant, I could almost explain why this has happened to me. But I am not, I have learned SO much in the last 2 years when I was doing so well that I do not have ignorance as an excuse any longer. So, for me.. it’s take a deep breath. Look at what I have fallen into, pick up the pieces and put it all back together again, then once that is done, focus on making headway. Thanks for your encouragement janice Susan 280/184/140

Response:

Been awhile since I’ve posted here, so… Hi! So, I am going to spend the remainder of today reviewing my old posts here, and catching up on yall,  revamping fitday.com so that it is current for me. Take some time to do some meal planning that works for both me and my family. I am going to go for a walk this afternoon at the track and do some thinking. Tonight when I get home I am going to weigh/measure and begin anew. I have the tools, I simply have to use them – I am going to keep telling that to myself. Let me serve as a lesson to all of us out there that thought we had "mastered" the art of getting fit and healthy.

Many people who turn out successful in the long run have failures along the way (it was in the book Thin for Life).  It’s good to take some time and think about what went wrong and how you can change it but also realize what went right – you decided to do something about it after a small % of gain rather than seeing the gain and giving up. You aren’t alone.  I regained some of the weight I lost too, but kept off 100+ lbs from my highest weight.  I’m working on the rest but also realizing that this is the first time I haven’t regained it all and then some in 25+ years of attempts. It’s good to see you back and going back to things that worked for you in the past.  I don’t really think we ever get this "mastered" but supposedly it will get easier in the long run.  You and I came into this group around the same time but I’m using a different name now.  It won’t take long to figure out who I am. BTW, Fattitudes is a good book especially for the mental stuff.  Two other good ones are Thin for Life and Passing for Thin if you ever get in a book reading mood. — the vbchick email goes to vbchick

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Susan, I feel your pain and understand how these things happen. I see people scarfing down cookies or getting whipped cream on their iced lattes and I want to be like them – able to eat without thinking about calories. My suggestion is try to do things one at a time. Maybe start back with fitday no matter how ugly your intake. Or resume exercising. I find that when I consistently exercise, I have more motivation to stick with my eating plan. You can get back on track. As always, YMMV. Kasey 365/213/190

Response:

Many people who turn out successful in the long run have failures along the way (it was in the book Thin for Life).  It’s good to take some time and think about what went wrong and how you can change it but also realize what went right – you decided to do something about it after a small % of gain rather than seeing the gain and giving up. You aren’t alone.  I regained some of the weight I lost too, but kept off 100+ lbs from my highest weight.  I’m working on the rest but also realizing that this is the first time I haven’t regained it all and then some in 25+ years of attempts.

I found this bit in Thin for Life encouraging, too, Nunya.  Your history sounds a bit like mine except that I’ve been at it for over 40 years:( I never give up,  and treat each new attempt like my first, but of course somewhere along the line the one that really succeeds for good will be the one where you don’t do exactly what you did before.   Since my last major weight loss of around 70lbs  (the total I needed to lose is around 100) I’ve spent the last 3 years at below 200 lbs despite regaining and relosing the last 30 or so pounds several times during that period.  I regard this as some sort of progress, and am currently well on track again. We’ll get there in the end! janice

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Hi Susan, I have faced those same demons.  A few years ago I lost nearly 40 lbs. Then, I slowly let my bad habits and excuses creep back in and before I knew it I had regained almost all of it.  I still don’t really know why I let myself trip up.  I have no one to blame, but myself.  I refuse to let it keep me down though.  I kicked myself in the butt and now I’m trudging on. This go ’round I find it much easier.  Easier in the sense that I feel I can live with my WOE forever.  I’ve only been doing this for 2 months now, but I feel confident that this WOE works for me. You seem to have a very clear idea of what you did and what you now have to do.  I think you are on the right road Susan, you just hit a little bump on the way.  I see you getting up, dusting yourself off and marching on. Congrats to you for not giving up! Willow Willow Darcy Shaw from Atlantic Canada Current Loss: -18 lbs Mini Goal: lose 25 lbs by 1st week May Ultimate Goal: lose 70 lbs

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi janice, it is good to see you are still as supportive as ever I have missed a.s.d – for sure. It’s very hard to force yourself to read everyone’s good news on here on a daily basis if you yourself are not making good progress. I have to stop that thinking and realize that each and every one of us here have faced similar struggles, maybe not posted them, but we all have the same demons. I think. Maybe everyone is perfect except me lol. As far as where to start. I think that you are correct in starting at simply maintaining where I am right now and re developing my WOE that works for me again. I am going to have to do some critical thinking and disection of my lifestyle and narrow it down to some specifics. Which is not always easy. Being realistically critical of myself and producing workable solutions is not my strong point, obviously. Or I wouldn’t be in the shape that I am in. I also need to calm down a bit and not be so hard on myself, I screwed up. Big deal, fix it and move on, right? The other thing I see happening is I let this spiral until there seems to be alot I have to fix, which in truth is over dramatizing things, another typical thing for me to do to myself – making mountains out of molehills. I also have to remember (sometimes on an hour by hour basis) that only I can do this, good or bad, its ME, MY choices that make the difference and stop blaming MY failures on outside persons/reasons. Some examples of those are I’ve got a huge family to feed and have to cook huge meals. There is nothing "good" or healthy near my work for lunch. I don’t "deserve" those breakfast tacos with sausage/potato/egg/cheese/tortilla that I have for breakfast – I deserve to be good to myself by fueling my body with nutrient dense healthy portions. Right? Right. And of course that list goes on and on. I need to be more assertive in making my food/exercise decisions and quit making excuses to why I "can’t" do things.  I have to be proactive about my goals and what I want to achieve, and I have to not allow events or opinions to sway me from that path. Like I said, I have the tools to do this and do it the right way, I simply have to USE them. If I were still food/exercise ignorant, I could almost explain why this has happened to me. But I am not, I have learned SO much in the last 2 years when I was doing so well that I do not have ignorance as an excuse any longer. So, for me.. it’s take a deep breath. Look at what I have fallen into, pick up the pieces and put it all back together again, then once that is done, focus on making headway. Thanks for your encouragement janice Susan 280/184/140

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Janice, I’ve gained OVER & OVER but I’m below 190 always ,since one year ago! I’ve gained recently but I’m going to win this!!!! YOU WILL WIN ALSO:) I always read your posts!!!!! glo

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You and I came into this group around the same time but I’m using a different name now. I do wish your new name didn’t make me think of "Dubya"

When you put it like that, so do I! — the vbchick email goes to vbchick

Response:

Susan, I feel your pain and understand how these things happen. I see people scarfing down cookies or getting whipped cream on their iced lattes and I want to be like them – able to eat without thinking about calories.

Well, most people I see doing this are fat .  Or else they’re young and are probably going to be fat when they’re older.  So I don’t want to be like them.   It’s the slim person who takes one cookie and happily enjoys it that I want to be like.  And I expect that that person is often conscious of — if not calories — at least eating moderately. A case in point — the audit team I was on last week.  There were 10 of us; 7 were non-trivially overweight.  The office staff brought in doughnuts and pastries every morning.  The 3 of us who were fit didn’t eat any; the others did.  One of the other fit people is an extremely athletic man of about 40 who ran 7 miles on his treadmill every morning before work (in under an hour!).  He eats hearty meals, but not junk.  The other healthy-eating man is 50ish and had a heart attack scare a few years ago.  He walked 2 miles on the motel treadmill every morning before work.  I ran or walked outdoors at lunchtime when I could.  None of the other people exercised.  I brought my lunch every day.  The others ordered out from a sandwich, but these two men ordered salads or plain sandwiches; the others had things like Rueben sandwiches and fries.  For afternoon snacks, I brought apples, the 40ish guy had another sandwich, and the 50ish guy brought nuts and carrot sticks.  The 7 other folks didn’t seem to snack in the afternoon — just went out for large dinners or fast food later in the evening. I was not jealous of the 7 other folks . Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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Welcome back, Susan.  I bet just writing this message will be a big help in getting you back on track, as it so clearly articulates all that you don’t like about what’s happened, and what you know you need to do to turn things around.  You can do it!  We’re here for you! Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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Hey Susan, I’m feeling like you are feeling but I’ve gained aout 5 or 6 lbs. Gosh!! I’d better get myslf in gear NOW! I’m just slippng and I was not LOOKING at me! It’s like I’m hiding from me but I’m NOT REALLY able to hide at all! I’m reading you here and SEEING ME:( You ARE STRONG as you face this! I’ll do this too! Thanks sooooo much for posting just when I needed your words!! glo

Response:

You and I came into this group around the same time but I’m using a different name now.  

I do wish your new name didn’t make me think of "Dubya" Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been awhile since I’ve posted here, so… Hi! I catch myself saying "I need to check in" and then I never do. Life has been busy as hell for me recently and I actually have to make time to get online. So here I am. As far as my WOE is going, I fallen off the wagon for about 10 weeks now, I got lazy and distracted and ended up putting about 16 lbs back on that I am re-determined to get off. I’ve got the old way of thinking back in my head and I know that I have to stop what I’m doing to myself or it will just make things worse. It started out with excuses in my exercise "too hot, too windy, too cold, too rainy, too busy, too tired, kids need me, hubby needs me, cat needs me" And then carried over into my eating, with excuses like "one more wont hurt, I will change it tomorrow. " A nibble here, a nibble there turns into a full snack, or a overblown meal or simply "screw it, I’m gonna enjoy myself" The bad stuff is back The acid reflex The feeling crappy The skin issues I’ve had most of my life which went away with carb control The sleep patterns being messed up And of course, the weight. I found myself quitting fitday.com all together, I don’t think I’ve posted a full day there in 2.5 months. I feel like I’m lying to myself half the time. I haven’t touched my bike or treadmill in ages. I am truly pissed off at myself for letting this happen, which is catch22 as most of us know. I am scared of what has been happening to me and I know how I can lie to myself and make excuses. I guess I have forgotten how GOOD I felt when the lb’s were dropping off me without as much work as I thought it would be in the beginning. I can’t even cram myself into my jeans I was in at Christmas, which truly makes me mad at myself. I feel awful. I want to blame everything except me, but I know in my heart of hearts that no one can change me (good or bad) but me. The compliments from friends and family are gone, and the knowing looks they pass between themselves when they think I am not seeing them are back, as if to say ‘Suz is getting up there again’ – Grrr. I feel like such a failure. I made some half ass lame attempt to buy the book that ‘Gwendal’ used to recommend to me called Fattitudes and they didn’t have it at Barnes and Noble – and so I let the idea of buying it go the moment they said they didn’t have it. Not that I would have read it anyhow. What is it in our psychological makeup that makes a person do this to themselves, to get off track, to unintentionally sabotage their health and well being? I guess I won’t ever figure that out. So, I am going to spend the remainder of today reviewing my old posts here, and catching up on yall,  revamping fitday.com so that it is current for me. Take some time to do some meal planning that works for both me and my family. I am going to go for a walk this afternoon at the track and do some thinking. Tonight when I get home I am going to weigh/measure and begin anew. I have the tools, I simply have to use them – I am going to keep telling that to myself. Let me serve as a lesson to all of us out there that thought we had "mastered" the art of getting fit and healthy. Thanks Susan 280/184/140

Boy can I relate to this email.  I’ve gotten thin before but never maintained it.  I’m currently working my way down again, and doing it very slowly.  In fact, I’ve taken since January of 2001 to get to where I am now.  I’ve gone up 10lbs for a period of 8 or 9 months when I just stopped exercising and gave myself fast food for breakfast. However, with the help of a couple exercise buddies, lurking and occasionally posting here, and lately, sessions with a nutritionist, I’ve been able to start back down.  My nutritionist, like most of the other folks on this page, emphasizes positive efforts over negative. She recommends we take a free day each week and just eat whatever foods we like, but keep in mind that moderation is a good concept.  In other words, buy a slice of cake at the bakery (if you can) instead of the whole one; or bribe 31 flavors to make you a pint-sized banana split instead of their regular size.  It was the breakfast taco you mentioned that got to me because that was exactly my downfall.  I love breakfast meats and tortillas and eggs.  So now I just make it myself with turkey bacon and corn tortillas, eggbeaters and baked potato chunks crisped in a little evoo (mario bartoli is my favorite chef!). Take care of yourself, you sound like a very good person!

Response:

Janice, I’ve gained OVER & OVER but I’m below 190 always ,since one year ago! I’ve gained recently but I’m going to win this!!!! YOU WILL WIN ALSO:) I always read your posts!!!!! glo

I read yours too, glo.  And well done on staying below 190 all that time. janice                        

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