Low Fat Diet

Question:

Hello Do you know what’s with Herman Taller, M.D., who has written "Calories Don’t Count"? I can’t find any information about him, after 1967 and his law problems. What’s with him? Is he still alive? If not – how and when he died? — Regards Tomasz [Tom] Trojanowski

It is an interesting question.  As I recall from websurfing about a year ago, he was convicted of something like mail fraud based on the page in his diet book that recommended the safflower oil pills.  He had some kind of investment in the supplement seller.  The prosecutor claimed that his diet book was a complete fiction made for the purpose of selling a bogus diet supplement. I found his diet book quite inspiring.  There are others these days who claim omega 6 has a role in weightloss.  When I read the book, the one page that touted the saflower oil pills sounded different in cadence, as if it was either written by someone else, or written at a different time than the rest of the book, and then inserted.  I think there is no question that he sincerely believed in a low carb high fat diet, as do I.  In his own profound weightloss he had used safflower oil as his fat source, himself. I don’t know how or when he died.  I’m sure he would have appreciated last year’s low carb surge. I believe Dr. Taller’s work was part of the research done by Atkins. Dr. Taller claimed that *all* of his patients on the diet lost weight. However, he monitored the patients with blood tests by which he determined who was cheating on the diet, and thus cheaters were not included in the 100% success figure. My personal theory is that any form of fat will work to produce weightloss. I have lost 166 pounds, and now have a BMI of about 24.  Dr. Taller claimed that weightloss using his approach stops working at 11% body fat.  In the 1960’s counting calories was difficult.  Today, with software like Fitday, it is easy.  I have been calorie counting at the same time as eating a 60% to 65% fat diet.  So, I guess I disagree with the title of his book.   It is entirely possible that I would have had the same results, except somewhat slower, if I had followed his ad-lib eating approach. Dr. Taller’s book inspired me to my success.  I belived his 100% success claim, for those Who Do Not Cheat.  That belief kept me from cheating. Dave  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/

Response:

I guess I use the term in the sense of: "To violate rules deliberately" In dieting jargon, "cheating" would be violating the rules of the diet one has chosen.  For example: A vegan eating brains is cheating. Did you mean to point out that a diet cheater is cheating themselves out improved health?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Do you know what’s with Herman Taller, M.D., who has written "Calories Don’t Count"? I can’t find any information about him, after 1967 and his law problems. What’s with him? Is he still alive? If not – how and when he died? It is an interesting question.  As I recall from websurfing about a year ago, he was convicted of something like mail fraud based on the page in his diet book that recommended the safflower oil pills.  He had some kind of investment in the supplement seller.  The prosecutor claimed that his diet book was a complete fiction made for the purpose of selling a bogus diet supplement. I found his diet book quite inspiring.  There are others these days who claim omega 6 has a role in weightloss.  When I read the book, the one page that touted the saflower oil pills sounded different in cadence, as if it was either written by someone else, or written at a different time than the rest of the book, and then inserted.  I think there is no question that he sincerely believed in a low carb high fat diet, as do I.  In his own profound weightloss he had used safflower oil as his fat source, himself. I don’t know how or when he died.  I’m sure he would have appreciated last year’s low carb surge. I believe Dr. Taller’s work was part of the research done by Atkins. Dr. Taller claimed that *all* of his patients on the diet lost weight. However, he monitored the patients with blood tests by which he determined who was cheating on the diet, and thus cheaters were not included in the 100% success figure. My personal theory is that any form of fat will work to produce weightloss. I have lost 166 pounds, and now have a BMI of about 24.  Dr. Taller claimed that weightloss using his approach stops working at 11% body fat.  In the 1960’s counting calories was difficult.  Today, with software like Fitday, it is easy.  I have been calorie counting at the same time as eating a 60% to 65% fat diet.  So, I guess I disagree with the title of his book. It is entirely possible that I would have had the same results, except somewhat slower, if I had followed his ad-lib eating approach. Do not count on it. I am eating ad lib at about the same ratios as you, and am not losing any more weight. I am at BMI 24 also. Dr. Taller’s book inspired me to my success.  I belived his 100% success claim, for those Who Do Not Cheat.  That belief kept me from cheating. With regards to diet cheating, my question is, "just who is being cheated". i Dave  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/ — 223/175.3/180

Response:

Question:

Of course if this really worked, there already wouldn’t be so many fat people, would there?  The simple fact is that trying to consume less pizza and eating sorbet instead of ice cream just leaves people hungry a couple hours later and craving more.  Then when they can’t keep from eating, these chowder heads attribute that to a personal weakness, not a biological response.

Response:

Of course if this really worked, there already wouldn’t be so many fat people, would there?  The simple fact is that trying to consume less pizza and eating sorbet instead of ice cream just leaves people hungry a couple hours later and craving more.  Then when they can’t keep from eating, these chowder heads attribute that to a personal weakness, not a biological response.

It’s not a ’simple fact’ if there are so many exceptions. Myself and most people I know can handle eating two slices of pizza and it lasts us until our next meal fine. I don’t particularly find that I have a high GI response to pizza, especially if I make my own at home (with whole wheat dough and vegetables). There are also ways to work around the feeling of eating less; when I eat something richer but smaller for a meal I usually pile some fruit or a big salad on the side and I feel satisfied.

Response:

‘No-Fad Diet’ offers hope for the weak Heart Association book dismisses trendy diets, offers options DALLAS, Texas (AP) — In a no-nonsense approach to weight loss, the American Heart Association’s new diet book offers options for the weak. Can’t give up pizza? Try eating two slices instead of your regular three. Craving ice cream? Try a sorbet. "The intent on doing this was to try to get around the faddish diets," said Dr. Robert Eckel, president-elect of the American Heart Association and professor of medicine at the University of Colorado School of Medicine. "The theme is based on behavior, nutrition and physical activity." Released this week, "No-Fad Diet: A Personal Plan for Healthy Weight Loss" dismisses trends like the grapefruit diet, the very low-fat diet and the low-carb diet. Although the heart association has published heart-healthy cookbooks before, this is its first all-out diet book with a variety of options. It also offers options for readers who may need to ease into eating healthy. With more than 190 recipes, it asks readers to take quizzes to figure out the best eating and exercising strategies. Along with a full menu plan, the book also offers the more flexible "75 percent solution" and "the switch and swap approach." The first option calls for eating 75 percent of what you normally eat. The switch-and-swap offers lower calorie alternatives. For instance, instead of a cinnamon roll, eating a cinnamon-raisin English muffin with 2 teaspoons of light tub margarine cuts 312 calories, according to the book. The book recommends that those using the 75 percent approach gradually include servings from each food group and try to avoid simply cutting back on non-nutritional foods. Lona Sandon, a dietitian and assistant professor of clinical nutrition at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas who looked over the new book, said it "doesn’t make changing your eating habits necessarily so daunting. The all or nothing approach so many fad diets tend to take obviously doesn’t work." The menu plan approach offers 1,200-, 1,600- or 2,000-calorie menus depending on the needs of the dieter, even allowing for the occasional doughnut or biscuit with bacon. Offering advice on heart-healthy eating, the book also tells readers that by subtracting 500 calories a day they can lose about one pound a week. It’s an approach that will take some time. No rapid weight loss here. "A lot of the fad diets have appealed to a rapid weight loss," Eckel said. "This is a slow, methodical approach." The book also suggests readers figure out which of three exercise categories would work best: joining organized exercise programs, starting a walking routine or taking up new forms of recreation like bowling or dancing. "It’s really a positive education piece versus the do and don’t list you see with so many of the fad diets out there," said Julie Bender, a dietitian with Baylor University Medical Outpatient Nutrition Counseling Program. "Everybody is at different places when they seek out a weight-loss plan." Sandon said that she likes how the book helps readers assess where they are at the beginning and encourages them to keep a journal to take a hard look at their eating habits. "The people who lose weight slowly and gradually are more successful keeping that weight off long-term," Sandon said. "We need to look at this as a long-term lifestyle. You’re losing the weight to keep it off for life."

Response:

Question:

Of course if this really worked, there already wouldn’t be so many fat people, would there?  The simple fact is that trying to consume less pizza and eating sorbet instead of ice cream just leaves people hungry a couple hours later and craving more.  Then when they can’t keep from eating, these chowder heads attribute that to a personal weakness, not a biological response.

It’s not a ’simple fact’ if there are so many exceptions. Myself and most people I know can handle eating two slices of pizza and it lasts us until our next meal fine. I don’t particularly find that I have a high GI response to pizza, especially if I make my own at home (with whole wheat dough and vegetables). There are also ways to work around the feeling of eating less; when I eat something richer but smaller for a meal I usually pile some fruit or a big salad on the side and I feel satisfied.

Response:

Of course if this really worked, there already wouldn’t be so many fat people, would there?  The simple fact is that trying to consume less pizza and eating sorbet instead of ice cream just leaves people hungry a couple hours later and craving more.  Then when they can’t keep from eating, these chowder heads attribute that to a personal weakness, not a biological response.

Response:

‘No-Fad Diet’ offers hope for the weak Heart Association book dismisses trendy diets, offers options DALLAS, Texas (AP) — In a no-nonsense approach to weight loss, the American Heart Association’s new diet book offers options for the weak. Can’t give up pizza? Try eating two slices instead of your regular three. Craving ice cream? Try a sorbet. "The intent on doing this was to try to get around the faddish diets," said Dr. Robert Eckel, president-elect of the American Heart Association and professor of medicine at the University of Colorado School of Medicine. "The theme is based on behavior, nutrition and physical activity." Released this week, "No-Fad Diet: A Personal Plan for Healthy Weight Loss" dismisses trends like the grapefruit diet, the very low-fat diet and the low-carb diet. Although the heart association has published heart-healthy cookbooks before, this is its first all-out diet book with a variety of options. It also offers options for readers who may need to ease into eating healthy. With more than 190 recipes, it asks readers to take quizzes to figure out the best eating and exercising strategies. Along with a full menu plan, the book also offers the more flexible "75 percent solution" and "the switch and swap approach." The first option calls for eating 75 percent of what you normally eat. The switch-and-swap offers lower calorie alternatives. For instance, instead of a cinnamon roll, eating a cinnamon-raisin English muffin with 2 teaspoons of light tub margarine cuts 312 calories, according to the book. The book recommends that those using the 75 percent approach gradually include servings from each food group and try to avoid simply cutting back on non-nutritional foods. Lona Sandon, a dietitian and assistant professor of clinical nutrition at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas who looked over the new book, said it "doesn’t make changing your eating habits necessarily so daunting. The all or nothing approach so many fad diets tend to take obviously doesn’t work." The menu plan approach offers 1,200-, 1,600- or 2,000-calorie menus depending on the needs of the dieter, even allowing for the occasional doughnut or biscuit with bacon. Offering advice on heart-healthy eating, the book also tells readers that by subtracting 500 calories a day they can lose about one pound a week. It’s an approach that will take some time. No rapid weight loss here. "A lot of the fad diets have appealed to a rapid weight loss," Eckel said. "This is a slow, methodical approach." The book also suggests readers figure out which of three exercise categories would work best: joining organized exercise programs, starting a walking routine or taking up new forms of recreation like bowling or dancing. "It’s really a positive education piece versus the do and don’t list you see with so many of the fad diets out there," said Julie Bender, a dietitian with Baylor University Medical Outpatient Nutrition Counseling Program. "Everybody is at different places when they seek out a weight-loss plan." Sandon said that she likes how the book helps readers assess where they are at the beginning and encourages them to keep a journal to take a hard look at their eating habits. "The people who lose weight slowly and gradually are more successful keeping that weight off long-term," Sandon said. "We need to look at this as a long-term lifestyle. You’re losing the weight to keep it off for life."

Response:

Question:

I’ve  lost over a hundred pounds on this diet. Do you folks think it is a scam? —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve  lost over a hundred pounds on this diet. Do you folks think it is a scam? Is that a rhetorical question? This diet finds somewhat more discussion on alt.support.diet.low-carb, rather than here. it always gets me when people post messages like the OP’s on Usenet.  i figure the best way to get a topic discussed it to actually introduce it as a topic, rather than just whining about why no one talks about it anymore. losing 100 lbs on any diet (except, possibly, Adkins) is great! It would be rather unlikely that a person who lost 100 lbs on Atkins would be worse off, compared to not losing the weight. so eating lots of fat even tho it means losing weight would be considered a good thing? I would consider it a good thing, yes. Dangers of eating fat, as such, have been overstated.

Yet a low fat diet will decrease LDL cholesterol (the bad kind).  Here’s a recent study: http://tinyurl.com/72law "CONCLUSIONS: Previous national dietary guidelines primarily emphasized avoiding saturated fat and cholesterol; as a result, the guidelines probably underestimated the potential LDL cholesterol-lowering effect of diet. In this study, emphasis on including nutrient-dense plant-based foods, consistent with recently revised national guidelines, increased the total and LDL cholesterol-lowering effect of a low-fat diet." As usual this study contradicts your religious beliefs so therefore I know you will consider it "junk science." — the volleyballchick

Response:

And what about double choc chip muffins!! Rachael

Response:

losing 100 lbs on any diet (except, possibly, Adkins) is great! It would be rather unlikely that a person who lost 100 lbs on Atkins would be worse off, compared to not losing the weight. so eating lots of fat even tho it means losing weight would be considered a good thing?

100 pounds is a tremendous accomplishment, regardless of how it’s acheived. Assuming it wasn’t the result of illness or a tapeworm, yes.   Donna

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Uncle has a diet called, "if it’s white, it ain’t right." (Excepting bananas and fish.) I hope he approves of eggs . Or cauliflower? or soymilk.  oooooh, the dreaded and controversial soymilk angle.  :) david

Nutrasweet is white too,  I sense a conspiracy.

Response:

My Uncle has a diet called, "if it’s white, it ain’t right." (Excepting bananas and fish.) I hope he approves of eggs . Or cauliflower?

or soymilk.  oooooh, the dreaded and controversial soymilk angle.  :) david

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve  lost over a hundred pounds on this diet. Do you folks think it is a scam? Is that a rhetorical question? This diet finds somewhat more discussion on alt.support.diet.low-carb, rather than here. it always gets me when people post messages like the OP’s on Usenet.  i figure the best way to get a topic discussed it to actually introduce it as a topic, rather than just whining about why no one talks about it anymore. losing 100 lbs on any diet (except, possibly, Adkins) is great! It would be rather unlikely that a person who lost 100 lbs on Atkins would be worse off, compared to not losing the weight.

so eating lots of fat even tho it means losing weight would be considered a good thing? david

Response:

I’ve  lost over a hundred pounds on this diet. Do you folks think it is a scam? Is that a rhetorical question? This diet finds somewhat more discussion on

alt.support.diet.low-carb, rather than here.

it always gets me when people post messages like the OP’s on Usenet.  i figure the best way to get a topic discussed it to actually introduce it as a topic, rather than just whining about why no one talks about it anymore. losing 100 lbs on any diet (except, possibly, Adkins) is great! david

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Uncle has a diet called, "if it’s white, it ain’t right."  (Excepting bananas and fish.) I hope he approves of eggs . Or cauliflower? Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

I suspect he thinks eggs are mostly yellow.  No sissy de-yolking for our menfolk. Plus, I suspect he has never been exposed to cauliflower.  It’s not something I’ve ever seen served in or near my father’s family in Michigan. Delenn

Response:

My Uncle has a diet called, "if it’s white, it ain’t right."  (Excepting bananas and fish.) I hope he approves of eggs .

Or cauliflower? Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Response:

My Uncle has a diet called, "if it’s white, it ain’t right."  (Excepting bananas and fish.)

I hope he approves of eggs . Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Response:

I’ve  lost over a hundred pounds on this diet. Do you folks think it is a scam?

No, it’s because we don’t name it by the current name.  It’s the same diet as the Glycemic Index Diet and the Body for Life diet and a number of others through the years.  Eat a balanced diet of healthy foods with plenty of fruits and vegetables, lean protein and whole grains.  Avoid saturated fats but get fish fats.  There.  I just told you again. My Uncle has a diet called, "if it’s white, it ain’t right."  (Excepting bananas and fish.) Figure out WHY it works, own it inside you, and you’ll stop calling it the SBD diet, too. Don’t follow a diet because some Guru told you, follow it because it fuels your body on an appropriate amount of calories with good energy levels. Delenn 244/163/162

Response:

I’ve  lost over a hundred pounds on this diet. Do you folks think it is a scam?

I think the group tends to be somewhat agnostic with regard to the particular type of diet, rather than being a cheerleading group for a particular one.  We try to help people with their weight loss issues regardless of the approach that they’ve chosen.  We’re always interested in experiences with different types of diets, though. Personally, I prefer the "eat less, exercise more" approach rather than any name-brand diet.  In effect, I designed my own diet.  It has worked for me . Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Response:

I’ve  lost over a hundred pounds on this diet. Do you folks think it is a scam?

It’s talked about at times with mostly positive feedback from those who have tried it.  The philosophy here is usually "eat less and exercise more" pretty much regardless of which method you choose.  SBD for some, WW for others just to name a few "commercial" plans and then most people tend to do their own thing. — the volleyballchick

Response:

And what about double choc chip muffins!!

careful with those.  they may contain trans fats. david

Response:

<snip I would consider it a good thing, yes. Dangers of eating fat, as such, have been overstated.

i’m not saying that losing 100 lbs isn’t a good thing (especially if one is 100# overweight), but at 2# per week, what nasties could one be developing over a years’ time? david

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb diet. Help, please. Is there one                simple print out I can at least get started with? Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that needs help? I am at a loss until I get some kind of help.    I know you’ll get some great advice here, but I would strongly suggest that you ask your doctor for a consultation with a nutritionist at your local hospital. They will have access to your most recent lab work, and your medications, which all should be considered when structuring a diet. good luck, Sas

Response:

         #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb diet. Help, please. Is there one                simple print out I can at least get started with? Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that needs help? I am at a loss until I get some kind of help.

   I know you’ll get some great advice here, but I would strongly suggest that you ask your doctor for a consultation with a nutritionist at your local hospital. They will have access to your most recent lab work, and your medications, which all should be considered when structuring a diet. good luck, Sas

Response:

Although there’s nothing wrong with South Beach, which is essentially low  carb without "evil" saturated fat, I personally would ignore the doctor’s  advice.  A low carb diet of any type is better than high carb, low fat.

Oh, I wouldn’t be too sure of that. It is very obvious that your cognitive abilities are severely limited, so the question is, were you born stupid or could it be as a result of your brain not being provided with sufficient carbs? As you can have no possible way of determining whether the woman’s Doctor prescribed the low fat/low carb diet purely for weight loss or as a part of a response to the various medical problems that she has, your implied suggestion that she ignore her Doctor’s advice would have to be the ultimate in blind, unreasoning, moronic, stupidity. You are a cretin! Go eat some carbs and restore some brain function. David — To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line. All other mail is automatically deleted.

Response:

Although there’s nothing wrong with South Beach, which is essentially low   carb without "evil" saturated fat, I personally would ignore the doctor’s   advice.  A low carb diet of any type is better than high carb, low fat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had heard about so many doing well on it. I will also check it out. thanks for the quick reply. || Just spent a very scary week in the hospital, lungs almost shut down. || || OK, #1. I have had a rapid weight gain in the preceeding 4 years || that I just couldn’t seem to get off. ||               The lung doctors now tell me they are surprised I || hadn’t put it together, the lung infections, ||                 then the steroids I was given to bring me back to a || better breathing status. || ||         #2. I am limited in my exercise abilities since I now am on || oxygen for sleep and for anytime I ||                am active. And yes that means at work. || ||         #3. I am at this point so tired, so frustrated, so wannabee || doing somethin about the weight. || ||          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb || diet. Help, please. Is there one ||                simple print out I can at least get started with? || || Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that || needs help? I am at a loss until || I get some kind of help. If that is what your doctor recommends, Atkins and some of the other   plans may be too restrictive for you.  I would recommend you get a copy of the "South Beach Diet" and read it.  That is a relatively low carb as well   as low fat diet program.  My sister recently started it and says it is easy to follow; she’s lost quite a bit of weight fairly quickly on it.  Good   luck and God bless. — Peter Website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

– Bob in CT

Response:

|| Just spent a very scary week in the hospital, lungs almost shut down. || || OK, #1. I have had a rapid weight gain in the preceeding 4 years || that I just couldn’t seem to get off. ||               The lung doctors now tell me they are surprised I || hadn’t put it together, the lung infections, ||                 then the steroids I was given to bring me back to a || better breathing status. || ||         #2. I am limited in my exercise abilities since I now am on || oxygen for sleep and for anytime I ||                am active. And yes that means at work. || ||         #3. I am at this point so tired, so frustrated, so wannabee || doing somethin about the weight. || ||          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb || diet. Help, please. Is there one ||                simple print out I can at least get started with? || || Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that || needs help? I am at a loss until || I get some kind of help. If that is what your doctor recommends, Atkins and some of the other plans may be too restrictive for you.  I would recommend you get a copy of the "South Beach Diet" and read it.  That is a relatively low carb as well as low fat diet program.  My sister recently started it and says it is easy to follow; she’s lost quite a bit of weight fairly quickly on it.  Good luck and God bless. — Peter Website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Response:

Just spent a very scary week in the hospital, lungs almost shut down. OK, #1. I have had a rapid weight gain in the preceeding 4 years that I just couldn’t seem to get off.               The lung doctors now tell me they are surprised I hadn’t put it together, the lung infections,                 then the steroids I was given to bring me back to a better breathing status.         #2. I am limited in my exercise abilities since I now am on oxygen for sleep and for anytime I                am active. And yes that means at work.         #3. I am at this point so tired, so frustrated, so wannabee doing somethin about the weight.          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb diet. Help, please. Is there one                simple print out I can at least get started with? Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that needs help? I am at a loss until I get some kind of help.

Response:

I had heard about so many doing well on it. I will also check it out. thanks for the quick reply.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – || Just spent a very scary week in the hospital, lungs almost shut down. || || OK, #1. I have had a rapid weight gain in the preceeding 4 years || that I just couldn’t seem to get off. ||               The lung doctors now tell me they are surprised I || hadn’t put it together, the lung infections, ||                 then the steroids I was given to bring me back to a || better breathing status. || ||         #2. I am limited in my exercise abilities since I now am on || oxygen for sleep and for anytime I ||                am active. And yes that means at work. || ||         #3. I am at this point so tired, so frustrated, so wannabee || doing somethin about the weight. || ||          #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb || diet. Help, please. Is there one ||                simple print out I can at least get started with? || || Anybody willing to deal with a 64 year old great gran mama that || needs help? I am at a loss until || I get some kind of help. If that is what your doctor recommends, Atkins and some of the other plans may be too restrictive for you.  I would recommend you get a copy of the "South Beach Diet" and read it.  That is a relatively low carb as well as low fat diet program.  My sister recently started it and says it is easy to follow; she’s lost quite a bit of weight fairly quickly on it.  Good luck and God bless. — Peter Website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Response:

         #4. I have the doc’s order to follow a Low Fat, Low Carb diet.  Help, please. Is there one simple print out I can at least get started with?

The extreme for this type of diet is a PSMF:   http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/products/ebooks/RFL_intro.php You can google for PSMF (protein sparing modified fast) as well, but in a nutshell: * 0.8 to 1.2 g protein per lb "ideal" body weight * EFAs * LC Veggies * Nothing else You can make it less extreme by replacing "nothing else" with various amounts of other things.  Your doctor can (should!) advise you about how strict you should be.

Response:

Question:

BTW, did you ever get the chocolate?

Yes, and I’m still trying to figure out what kind of thank-you package to send!  I’ve been busy with school but I’ll put something together soonish.

Response:

BTW, did you ever get the chocolate? Yes, and I’m still trying to figure out what kind of thank-you package to send!  I’ve been busy with school but I’ll put something together soonish.

Don’t worry about it.  I was afraid it got lost (though I’ve not lost much   in the mail). — Bob in CT

Response:

Quoting The Queen of Cans and Jars: BTW, did you ever get the chocolate? Yes,

[brev.] Ooooh, what kind of chocolate was it?  And did you like it? S., confirmed chocoholic

Response:

I’m curious if there’s anyone out there who’s doing a low-carb and low-fat diet.  Sometimes it’s hard to balance the two and weigh loss doesnt seem to be as rapid as a strickly low carb diet, but i choose to moderate the amount of saturated fats i eat.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My problem is that I can’t find a place, other than here, that discusses the unique characteristics of the low carb way of life.  For instance, there are people here who bike on low carb.  If you go to a biking group, you’ll see that the vast majority of people believe that carbs and generally an extreme amount of carbs are necessary for biking. (Heck, I read a mag. that said you needed two to five grams of carbs for every pound of body weight — and not lean weight, either — to train for  running a half marathon.)  If I could find somewhere else that was  filtered (or even if we could filter all crossposts), and that discussed  this material, I’d gladly go there.  BTW, did you ever get the chocolate? You (or I should say we) could try to revive the Lowcarb Diet and Exercise List — check it out in the FAQ. It was a great source of information when I started out and when Lyle was in the process of doing research for his first book. There are still some very knowledgeable members on the list, but the traffic has really died down in the last few years. It was and is a fairly serious group and usually not a lot of trivial tit-n-tat sort of stuff. — Rudy – Remove the Z from my address to respond. "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"  -Emiliano Zapata Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

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I’m curious if there’s anyone out there who’s doing a low-carb and   low-fat diet.  Sometimes it’s hard to balance the two and weigh loss doesnt seem   to be as rapid as a strickly low carb diet, but i choose to moderate the   amount of saturated fats i eat.

Why would one do that (moderate saturated fat intake)? — Bob in CT

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My diet is going exceptionally well now, and my life commitment to it is unquestionable.

Leave if you wish; but please be careful of the line above.  I said roughly the same thing my first time around when my highest weight was 293.  C’mon back in a year and I hope you’re where you want to be, having gotten there and remained there.  If you slip (and from what I read, about 95% do) the hardest part of any new eating plan for you may be digesting the word "unquestionable". Best of luck Coff 325.5/276/185

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I find it utterly amusing that someone who lurks in a group feels the need to tell everyone they are leaving the group.

they only do it because they’re attention whores.  

Response:

I find it utterly amusing that someone who lurks in a group feels the   need to tell everyone they are leaving the group. they only do it because they’re attention whores.

I told everyone I was leaving the group and I’m about as far from an   "attention whore" as you can get.  While I like some of the information   provided on this group, the amount of BS is very high. — Bob in CT

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I find it utterly amusing that someone who lurks in a group feels the need to tell everyone they are leaving the group. they only do it because they’re attention whores. I told everyone I was leaving the group and I’m about as far from an "attention whore" as you can get.  While I like some of the information provided on this group, the amount of BS is very high.

no, you’re not an attention whore.  you are a good guy who gets annoyed, and i don’t blame you for that.  you posted your goodbye out of frustration.  the group is basically shit anymore, and has been for quite a while.   but perdu’s post, and posts like it, are generally designed not to say "buh-bye" to the group but to poke at festering wounds and create drama. i’ve seen it a million times since i started reading usenet, and i expect if i keep reading i’ll see it a million more.  

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Yes, your own post is full of helpful information and support, so I can see how most posts would seem boring to you in contrast. — Cheri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  This place as almost all places on the Usenet deteriorated to the point of not worth participating.  I’ve deep lurked in the past two weeks or so, to see if I’m right, and well, I am. There are just some garbage that make a support group fall literally apart and not worth dealing with. It is fascinating, how the petri dish of useless filth keeps growing. The percentage of information and good people are outnumbered by the trash, and the flames. I want to thank you all for all the tools I had gotten here. My diet is going exceptionally well now, and my life commitment to it is unquestionable. It will be adjusted as we go along, to incorporate other helpful and beneficial ways of living and it seems the future is bright. At 245lbs now, and still losing, I have lost my 1st 40 pounds and a lot of pant sizes. I’m adjusting my life, carbs, calories, activities and everything for the new chapter. As for this group, I wish you all well, and I will be following the posts, heavily filtered out. I don’t see any more value on hanging out as a permanent part of it. I have no needs like sick little JC does, or the other needy and disruptive people who are certainly not here to support anyone but their own unhealthy needs. It is BORING. So I’ll be checking in here, but I’ll post sparingly, giving myself more time to look at other information that I may find helpful. Good luck all.                               Steve —    Best Regards,                 Steve Tout est per

Question:

awesome changes!!! H. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was out to a hockey game this weekend and had dinner and drinks before the game with friends.  The original plan was to eat at a pub which always means limited vegetarian choices for me.  I was very happy when someone suggested a Mediterranean restaurant instead.  It was so yummy and much better than the artery-clogging nachos I would have been stuck with at the pub.  I planned on having 3 beers (haven’t had beer in ages).  Halfway through the second beer I started to feel very bloated and uncomfortably full.  I gave the rest of my beer to DH and went for some water.  I felt so full all night, all I wanted to do was go home and lay down — or barf LOL.  I don’t think I’ve ever felt like that after one and a half beers before and although it tasted quite nice I think it will be a while before I desire a brew again.  Since I had planned on nachos and 3 beers I came out under my cal limit for the day, but I was way too bloated to even think about eating anything else. It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before! I happily report a 2lb drop this week. Willow Willow Darcy Shaw from Atlantic Canada Current Loss: -16 lbs Mini Goal: lose 25 lbs by 1st week May Ultimate Goal: lose 70 lbs

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I was out to a hockey game this weekend and had dinner and drinks before the game with friends.  The original plan was to eat at a pub which always means limited vegetarian choices for me.  I was very happy when someone suggested a Mediterranean restaurant instead.  It was so yummy and much better than the artery-clogging nachos I would have been stuck with at the pub.  I planned on having 3 beers (haven’t had beer in ages).  Halfway through the second beer I started to feel very bloated and uncomfortably full.  I gave the rest of my beer to DH and went for some water.  I felt so full all night, all I wanted to do was go home and lay down — or barf LOL.  I don’t think I’ve ever felt like that after one and a half beers before and although it tasted quite nice I think it will be a while before I desire a brew again.  Since I had planned on nachos and 3 beers I came out under my cal limit for the day, but I was way too bloated to even think about eating anything else. It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before! I happily report a 2lb drop this week. Willow Willow Darcy Shaw from Atlantic Canada Current Loss: -16 lbs Mini Goal: lose 25 lbs by 1st week May Ultimate Goal: lose 70 lbs

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planned on having 3 beers (haven’t had beer in ages).  Halfway through the second beer I started to feel very bloated and uncomfortably full.  I gave the rest of my beer to DH and went for some water.  I felt so full all night, all I wanted to do was go home and lay down — or barf LOL.  I don’t think I’ve ever felt like that after one and a half beers before and although it tasted quite nice I think it will be a while before I desire a brew again.

If you’ve been on a diet for a while you probably have less capacity in your stomach than you did before, the stomach is elastic. Beer can be very filling, especially if you don’t normally have fizzy drinks as part of your diet. It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before!

Yeah, I went to Starbucks on Sat & had a blueberry muffin & caramel macchiato with cream whilst still staying under 1200 cals for the day. I had cereal & fruit for b’fast but nothing after Starbucks, it wasn’t a temptation I couldn’t resist, I had planned all along I’d have a fattening coffee & a muffin. You have to indulge sometimes. Maybe I didn’t get enough protein & nutrition that day but one day of ‘nutritional defficiency’ hasn’t killed anybody… I happily report a 2lb drop this week.

Congrats…

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It’s also fun to realize foods you thought you really, really loved (and of course were off the calorie & fat charts) don’t quite *do it* for you anymore.  I seldom use butter or mayo anymore.

Mary responds: Way true. I lost 60 lb from last September to now, on a low carb/low fat diet, and I’m finding higher fat stuff tastes ick. Fried stuff actually taste gross. Dunno why that is, but its pronounced. We have a KFC place near us, and sometimes on the weekends when no one feels like cooking, we get take out for our three kids, and I’m not even remotely tempted to eat the stuff anymore. I also find I’m doing the math in my head all the time and calculating the trade offs …lets see…if I can have X calories, I can either have one tiny micro serving of this (pick some high fat or high carb item) OR I can have a huge amount of this low cal alternatives. Right now, my heads way more into the volume – probably because I’m thinking about ways to NOT end up hungry. I even do the math on condiments…okay, if I put butter or mayo on it, that means I can’t eat that extra tub of low fat yoghurt…which I’d rather have! Mary G.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before! I happily report a 2lb drop this week. Willow Willow Darcy Shaw from Atlantic Canada Current Loss: -16 lbs Mini Goal: lose 25 lbs by 1st week May Ultimate Goal: lose 70 lbs

WTG Willow!  Two pounds is great.   Beverly

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It continues to amaze me that I can still eat things that before I would have considered "forbidden" and still lose weight — all it takes is a little preplanning.  The concept is so simple, I don’t know why it wasn’t so obvious to me before! I happily report a 2lb drop this week.

Very cool, Willow.  Keep it up! It’s also fun to realize foods you thought you really, really loved (and of course were off the calorie & fat charts) don’t quite *do it* for you anymore.  I seldom use butter or mayo anymore. — Snowshoeing . . . Laurie in Maine 207/115  New Scale Start: 2/02  Maintained since 2/03 —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

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Question:

So today he went back to the doctor and to get a 3rd medicine for his awful cough.  I was not aware of this visit, so I did not accompany him. They gave him the results of his hba1c test  - he was a 12.  They did not bother checking his blood sugar during today’s visit.  I find that odd. Even while taking his glucotrol pills, his blood sugar was 245 last visit. Is that really considered okay?  She told him to just keep taking the same pills and she would see him again in 2 weeks.  Stupid doctor that she was, she didn’t even give him a new prescription for it, and he only has 3 pills left (The ER doctor only gave him 5 pills). ~sigh~

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So today he went back to the doctor and to get a 3rd medicine for his awful cough.  I was not aware of this visit, so I did not accompany him. They gave him the results of his hba1c test  - he was a 12.  They did not bother checking his blood sugar during today’s visit.  I find that odd. Even while taking his glucotrol pills, his blood sugar was 245 last visit. Is that really considered okay?

No 245 isn’t OK, but they didn’t check it because they didn’t need to.  They already know he is diabetic and that he has been for a while or his A1c wouldn’t have been that high. Call the dr’s office and ask that they call in a prescription for the drug they want him to take and also for a meter and test strips, if he doesn’t have one, yet. http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm http://www.drugs.com/glucotrol.html

Response:

So today he went back to the doctor and to get a 3rd medicine for his awful cough.  I was not aware of this visit, so I did not accompany him. They gave him the results of his hba1c test  - he was a 12.  They did not bother checking his blood sugar during today’s visit.  I find that odd. Even while taking his glucotrol pills, his blood sugar was 245 last visit. Is that really considered okay?  She told him to just keep taking the same pills and she would see him again in 2 weeks. Stupid doctor that she was, she didn’t even give him a new prescription for it, and he only has 3 pills left (The ER doctor only gave him 5 pills).

Get another prescription….get a meter and strips. Start testing.  Start him on a LC diet.  Get that BG level down.

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::: So I’m interested in switching doctors :: Run, don’t walk. :: ::: I do plan on calling another doctor that the ER recommended when his ::: office opens today, and I plan on asking what type of treatment he ::: believes in for diabetes. :: :: Good idea. :: :: What pills have they put your husband on? A low-carb diet suits many :: diabetics, but he might get too low on low-carb with some pills. this is why monitoring is important.  If he starting going too low consistently, you can up the carb level a bit.

Response:

You might want to check out the alt.support.diabetes newsgroup too. — Cheri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :: So I’m interested in switching doctors (actually, I was before we :: went to see her because her office does not page doctors on the :: weekend, even though the ER told them it was an emergency and they :: had to speak with his doctor). How would I be able to find a doctor :: familiar with Dr. Bernstein’s work with diabetes?  I am much more :: intersted in a natural approach to this than a drug-fix.

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Just in case: http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

:: So we went several hours at the Doctor’s office yesterday.  They

Response:

:: So we went several hours at the Doctor’s office yesterday.  They :: took more blood and are getting that test that will give a history :: of his blood sugar. This doctor was not very concerned with the :: "chance" that he "may" be diabetic. Doctors deal with diabetic people everyday.  She probably didn’t want to alarm you more than necessary. :: She was more concerned about :: prescribing him 3 drugs for his flu, for which he is already getting :: better.  She told him to continue taking the blood sugar pills that :: he received at the ER, and she would see him in a week! given that he’s already on the pills and is getting better with the flu, this doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.  The pills need time to start working, but him eating more carbs will likely slow progress down in terms of him getting control. :: Does that sound crazy to anybody else? :: If he IS diabetic, and his blood sugar is elevated because of the :: flu… than as he recovers… won’t his blood sugar drop?   If he :: continues to take the same insulin dosage as when his blood sugar :: was 290, won’t that be bad? He’s not taking insulin, right?  Or am I just being overly concerned and :: a week isn’t that big of a deal? After all, he’s been getting along :: fine for who knows how long. I think you’re being overly concerned for the time being.  For one thing, I don’t believe that simply having the flu will drive BG levels up to 290 for a nondiabetic and even for a nondiabetic, whose diet is in order.  It got that high due to his diet and him being diabetic.  He needs to continue taking the pills and reduce carb intake.  IMO, monitoring BG levels is very, very important, as their impact with differing carb intake can be hard to gauge. :: :: I did leave (went for work) apparently just before the end of his :: visit when the doctor came back, gave him the scripts, and gave him :: paperwork, brochures, eating plans, etc., for a high fiber low fat :: diet.  She even wrote on his food pyramid illustration :: "carbohydrate, carbohydrate, carbohydrate = healthy" :: I am so frustrated!  That doctor barely spent any time with him. Typical.  Also, she just made your job harder.  You likely need to calm down a bit, though. :: :: So I’m interested in switching doctors (actually, I was before we :: went to see her because her office does not page doctors on the :: weekend, even though the ER told them it was an emergency and they :: had to speak with his doctor). How would I be able to find a doctor :: familiar with Dr. Bernstein’s work with diabetes?  I am much more :: intersted in a natural approach to this than a drug-fix. I think it’s best to look to a drug-fix first until you can get him on LC and get his BG levels under control.  Then he can possibly stop using oral meds, eventually. Also, while having a doctor familiar with Bernstein would be nice, it isn’t necessary. Why don’t you go buy the recently released Atkins book on diabetes. You could go to the Bernstein website, BTW, and see if you can find some info there on good doctors for his type of diabetic care.   We also :: have an HMO for insurance, and in our plan we are not allowed to :: switch primary care doctors more than once a month.  So we can’t :: just go to different doctors.  I do plan on calling another doctor :: that the ER recommended when his office opens today, and I plan on :: asking what type of treatment he believes in for diabetes. :: :: Oh, and one more clarification: When we were in the ER and they gave :: him orange juice and graham crackers, that was before they got his :: blood sugar results back, and before they found out he was 290. :: Then when the doctor became concerned after they took it again and :: it had risen higher, I asked her what did she expect, because they :: just gave him OJ & sugar!? Well, for a normal person it would never have gotten that high…so unless they knew he was diabetic. it doesn’t seem unreasonable… :: Oh, and yesterday at the doctors office his blood sugar tested as :: 245. He needs those pills.  And he needs proper diet.  You need a meter and he needs to test frequently.  LC and meds could potentially, eventually, drive BG levels too low, too.  But my guess is that will take a while to happen, espeically if he doesn’t do a lot of exercise and follow a strict LC diet. Hang in there, you’ll get it figured out before too long.  Try not to panic. :: :: :: — :: Spring :: LC since 1/1/04 :: 260/200/170 :: :: "Before" & "current" pics at link below: :: http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sprgsnow/album?.tok=phX4sVBBuvxvs4Hs…

Response:

What pills have they put your husband on? A low-carb diet suits many diabetics, but he might get too low on low-carb with some pills.

Glucotrol

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OK rather than fight the primary care doctor, get on his good side while not eating cookies and orange juice or overloading on carbohydrates. You can request going to an endocrinologist since it is a newly diagnosed case of diabetes. If you can’t get to a specialist any way around your HMO, try to find an Osteopathic doctor to switch over to. They are as OK as an MD is, just ask for a DO. Most are more in tune with nutrition and its consequences on health. My DO doesn’t want me to go into ketosis but agrees with me being on a low carb diet, especially after my lab tests have come back so well. FTR, long before my problems started I went to nursing school. I still have my nutrition books. Carbs are great if you pick the right ones and use them in moderation. Just once I’d like to see someone explain to the patient that not all carbs are good. Stay away from white flour, bread , rice, sweets, white sugar, etc. One thing you need right away if you don’t have one is a glucose meter. When he is recovered from the flu, take blood sugar in the am, take it before meals and take it 2 hours after he eats. Illness does cause the blood sugar to increase but it doesn’t always go down significantly when the illness is over. He may also have given him a low dose glucotrol but he should be monitored on a daily basis. I check up to 5 times a day, even low carbing:) Yeah, I know, they are still using the old food pyramid but experts are still confused as to why there are so many diabetics and relate those problems to obesity. OH, another thing, watch out for some of his meds, especially OTC drugs. Most are sugar based. Try not to worry. When he is over the flu, the doctor can adjust his treatment program. Give that fella some chicken soup and some sugar free Tang!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So we went several hours at the Doctor’s office yesterday.  They took more blood and are getting that test that will give a history of his blood sugar. This doctor was not very concerned with the "chance" that he "may" be diabetic.  She was more concerned about prescribing him 3 drugs for his flu, for which he is already getting better.  She told him to continue taking the blood sugar pills that he received at the ER, and she would see him in a week! Does that sound crazy to anybody else? If he IS diabetic, and his blood sugar is elevated because of the flu… than as he recovers… won’t his blood sugar drop?  If he continues to take the same insulin dosage as when his blood sugar was 290, won’t that be bad? Or am I just being overly concerned and a week isn’t that big of a deal? After all, he’s been getting along fine for who knows how long. I did leave (went for work) apparently just before the end of his visit when the doctor came back, gave him the scripts, and gave him paperwork, brochures, eating plans, etc., for a high fiber low fat diet.  She even wrote on his food pyramid illustration "carbohydrate, carbohydrate, carbohydrate = healthy" I am so frustrated!  That doctor barely spent any time with him. So I’m interested in switching doctors (actually, I was before we went to see her because her office does not page doctors on the weekend, even though the ER told them it was an emergency and they had to speak with his doctor). How would I be able to find a doctor familiar with Dr. Bernstein’s work with diabetes?  I am much more intersted in a natural approach to this than a drug-fix.  We also have an HMO for insurance, and in our plan we are not allowed to switch primary care doctors more than once a month.  So we can’t just go to different doctors.  I do plan on calling another doctor that the ER recommended when his office opens today, and I plan on asking what type of treatment he believes in for diabetes. Oh, and one more clarification: When we were in the ER and they gave him orange juice and graham crackers, that was before they got his blood sugar results back, and before they found out he was 290.  Then when the doctor became concerned after they took it again and it had risen higher, I asked her what did she expect, because they just gave him OJ & sugar!? Oh, and yesterday at the doctors office his blood sugar tested as 245. — Spring LC since 1/1/04 260/200/170 "Before" & "current" pics at link below: http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sprgsnow/album?.tok=phX4sVBBuvxvs4Hs…

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So I’m interested in switching doctors

Run, don’t walk. I do plan on calling another doctor that the ER recommended when his office opens today, and I plan on asking what type of treatment he believes in for diabetes.

Good idea. What pills have they put your husband on? A low-carb diet suits many diabetics, but he might get too low on low-carb with some pills. Good luck with this! alt.support.diabetes might get more specialist advice than here. Nicky. — A1c 10.5/4.5/<6  Weight 95/78/72Kg 1g Metformin, 87.5ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

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So we went several hours at the Doctor’s office yesterday.  They took more blood and are getting that test that will give a history of his blood sugar. This doctor was not very concerned with the "chance" that he "may" be diabetic.  She was more concerned about prescribing him 3 drugs for his flu, for which he is already getting better.  She told him to continue taking the blood sugar pills that he received at the ER, and she would see him in a week! Does that sound crazy to anybody else? If he IS diabetic, and his blood sugar is elevated because of the flu… than as he recovers… won’t his blood sugar drop?  If he continues to take the same insulin dosage as when his blood sugar was 290, won’t that be bad? Or am I just being overly concerned and a week isn’t that big of a deal? After all, he’s been getting along fine for who knows how long. I did leave (went for work) apparently just before the end of his visit when the doctor came back, gave him the scripts, and gave him paperwork, brochures, eating plans, etc., for a high fiber low fat diet.  She even wrote on his food pyramid illustration "carbohydrate, carbohydrate, carbohydrate = healthy" I am so frustrated!  That doctor barely spent any time with him. So I’m interested in switching doctors (actually, I was before we went to see her because her office does not page doctors on the weekend, even though the ER told them it was an emergency and they had to speak with his doctor). How would I be able to find a doctor familiar with Dr. Bernstein’s work with diabetes?  I am much more intersted in a natural approach to this than a drug-fix.  We also have an HMO for insurance, and in our plan we are not allowed to switch primary care doctors more than once a month.  So we can’t just go to different doctors.  I do plan on calling another doctor that the ER recommended when his office opens today, and I plan on asking what type of treatment he believes in for diabetes. Oh, and one more clarification: When we were in the ER and they gave him orange juice and graham crackers, that was before they got his blood sugar results back, and before they found out he was 290.  Then when the doctor became concerned after they took it again and it had risen higher, I asked her what did she expect, because they just gave him OJ & sugar!? Oh, and yesterday at the doctors office his blood sugar tested as 245. — Spring LC since 1/1/04 260/200/170 "Before" & "current" pics at link below: http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sprgsnow/album?.tok=phX4sVBBuvxvs4Hs…

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Question:

I fell off the carb diet.  I find it so horribly hard to follow.

If you find it that hard to follow, it’s possibly not the right eating plan for you. It’s a life-long way of eating, so you have to be happy with it to be successful. I did Atkins faithfully for 2.5 wks. and only lost 8 lbs.

Oh please. What were you expecting? How can you possibly say "only lost 8 lbs in 2.5 weeks"? I’m sorry if I sound unsympathetic. But I am. Anne 253/191/??? — Jeans size 22/14/10 7/99

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8 lbs. back.  I know, don’t yell at me.  Is there any one of these diets where you are allowed some of these foods in moderation, or even 1 of them everyday so you don’t feel so deprived?

Sugarbusters allows more complex carb in general. Carbohydrate Addict’s Diet allows a limited amount of any carbs at one meal per day, and virtually none the rest of the day.   I believe CAD does not allow between meal snacking, though (it’s been a while since I read that book). —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

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Try Carbohydrates Addicts Lifespan Program. 8 lbs in 2.5 weeks is great. Whats wrong with that? You probably won’t lose as fast with CALP but you get to eat bread, etc.   Loretta – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fell off the carb diet.  I find it so horribly hard to follow.  Are all of the low-carb diets so strict.  Are there any that allow you potatoes, bread and fruit on occasion.  Even if in small amounts.  I did Atkins faithfully for 2.5 wks. and only lost 8 lbs.  I went in a restaurant one day and couldn’t stand it any longer.  I ordered a meatloaf dinner with potatoes, ate a hard roll which tasted like nectar of the god’s and ordered a fresh fruit plate to go with it.  I’ve been off ever since and naturally gained my 8 lbs. back.  I know, don’t yell at me.  Is there any one of these diets where you are allowed some of these foods in moderation, or even 1 of them everyday so you don’t feel so deprived?

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I guess everyone has to find the path that works best for him.  Since going off most grain and sugar carbs for almost 3 months now thanks to Dr. Atkins (bless him!), I don’t have any carb cravings or "food issues," as in thinking about what I’ll eat next, etc., scarfing cookies and being unable to stop at 2 or 3, etc. MOST awesome:   I feel in control.  If I want something, I eat it, and I don’t think of it as "cheating."  I’ll eat a small portion, ie. a couple of bites of the birthday cake, a bit of the homemade candy, and stop. Previous to the Atkins diet, I could not.    I would not recommend this if someone has sugar or carb cravings and can’t stop.  So far, no stalls and ongoing weight loss.  Not having cravings has made such a difference.  I absolutely NEVER feel deprived in any way and have a healthier attitude about food.  I feel in control of my body and never have before – I always felt it was betraying me in some way.  Also Noticed:  My previously dry skin is dewey and healthy again – FAT is good (especially EFA’s – veggie fats)   I see the forgoing positive aspects here at asd-lc alot.   YMMV.  Good luck with whatever you choose. Connie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fell off the carb diet.  I find it so horribly hard to follow.  Are all of the low-carb diets so strict.  Are there any that allow you potatoes, bread and fruit on occasion.  Even if in small amounts.  I did Atkins faithfully for 2.5 wks. and only lost 8 lbs.  I went in a restaurant one day and couldn’t stand it any longer.  I ordered a meatloaf dinner with potatoes, ate a hard roll which tasted like nectar of the god’s and ordered a fresh fruit plate to go with it.  I’ve been off ever since and naturally gained my 8 lbs. back.  I know, don’t yell at me.  Is there any one of these diets where you are allowed some of these foods in moderation, or even 1 of them everyday so you don’t feel so deprived?

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I only lost 5 my first two weeks. Serena 320+/222/180 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Excuse me, but 8 lbs in 2 and a half weeks is nothing to complain about.  What were you seriously expecting to lose? I lost 9 lbs my first two weeks then nothing for two weeks, and I stuck with it. Yes, there are other plans.  Look at CAD.  Look at SugarBusters.  But realize that you’ll probably lose more slowly and at a higher level or carbs, you cravings probably won’t go away. You have to make a commitment to yourself to follow the plan of your choice.  An occasional lapse is fine – we all do it.  But you have to get back on the plan immediately if you want to be successful. BTW, you can have fruit on Atkins after induction.  Low glycemic fruit is perfectly acceptable (though the extra carbs cause some people to stop loosing).  I have strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, cantaloupe, etc.  Not every day, but when I want fruit, I have it.  I believe that PP allows fruit as well. Read the FAQ for an overview of several LC plans. Barb 205/155.5(size 10 jeans)/145(size 8 jeans) – Atkins 1/99 I fell off the carb diet.  I find it so horribly hard to follow.  Are all of the low-carb diets so strict.  Are there any that allow you potatoes, bread and fruit on occasion.  Even if in small amounts.  I did Atkins faithfully for 2.5 wks. and only lost 8 lbs.  I went in a restaurant one day and couldn’t stand it any longer.  I ordered a meatloaf dinner with potatoes, ate a hard roll which tasted like nectar of the god’s and ordered a fresh fruit plate to go with it.  I’ve been off ever since and naturally gained my 8 lbs. back.  I know, don’t yell at me.  Is there any one of these diets where you are allowed some of these foods in moderation, or even 1 of them everyday so you don’t feel so deprived?

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I find it so horribly hard to follow.

Then don’t. Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to do this. Myra Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. Please direct e-mail to myra [at] primenet [dot] com

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SNIP!! If you want to get those cravings under control, then you have to give your body a chance to withdraw from the excessive amount of carbs you’ve fed it for years.  Alcoholics know all about DTs and the other nasty side effects of alcohol withdrawal.  We have to recognize that this happens to us, too.

Amen to that!  Yesterday I gave in to a chocolate chunk cookie at work.  An hour later, I felt like I was swimming in jello (and not even sugar-free jello!).  My arms and legs felt like lead, and I could barely keep my eyes open.  I had to take a nap when I got home.  Next time I want something sweet, I think I’ll find a strawberry. Jae

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It is for this very reason that I practice the CAD (Carb Addicts Diet) way of life. I am not disciplined to go through life without bread or potatoes passing my lips. I cannot imagine forgoing cake on my own birthday. With CAD, the weight loss is slower but the living is easier. I don’t "cheat" because I have a Reward Meal each day that I can indulge my desires (because they are never cravings). If the kids have popcorn during the day, I might say "that sounds good" and plan it as part of my reward meal. Very satisfying. Since I do the RM at dinner, I don’t snack the rest of the night and I’m able to resist temptations during the day. I truly believe the psychology of this WOL is going to make it much easier for me to stick to, because if I’m going to eat these "naughty" foods, at least it’s within a parameter. However, and this is a big but, if you are unsatisfied with 8 lbs loss in 2.5 weeks on Atkins, you might be really unhappy with CAD and not stick to it. I started 2/15/00 and have only lost 15 lbs. But I lost them. I’ve kept them off. They are never coming back. And I’m not a slave to food. Pretty good in my book. And you should get their book, the Drs. Heller I mean. Good luck! I fell off the carb diet.  I find it so horribly hard to follow.  Are all of the low-carb diets so strict.  Are there any that allow you potatoes, bread and fruit on occasion.  Even if in small amounts.  I did Atkins faithfully for 2.5 wks. and only lost 8 lbs.  I went in a restaurant one day and couldn’t stand it any longer.  I ordered a meatloaf dinner with potatoes, ate a hard roll which tasted like nectar of the god’s and ordered a fresh fruit plate to go with it.  I’ve been off ever since and naturally gained my 8 lbs. back.  I know, don’t yell at me.  Is there any one of these diets where you are allowed some of these foods in moderation, or even 1 of them everyday so you don’t feel so deprived?

– Ann. http://www.xprt.net/~annbritt

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Or some haggis?!  Tee hee! — Becky 5′2" 245/208/115 since 3/11/00 Don’t make me use uppercase…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SNIP!! If you want to get those cravings under control, then you have to give your body a chance to withdraw from the excessive amount of carbs you’ve fed it for years.  Alcoholics know all about DTs and the other nasty side effects of alcohol withdrawal.  We have to recognize that this happens to us, too. Amen to that!  Yesterday I gave in to a chocolate chunk cookie at work. An hour later, I felt like I was swimming in jello (and not even sugar-free jello!).  My arms and legs felt like lead, and I could barely keep my eyes open.  I had to take a nap when I got home.  Next time I want something sweet, I think I’ll find a strawberry. Jae

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No.  You cannot have rolls and potatoes while eating low-carb.  However, if you know that you cannot live without sugar and white flour then what you could do is eat a moderate amount of carbs and not be on a low-carb diet.  You have to do what you can live with, there is no sense in torturing yourself.  For me it is more important to have a way of eating where I can lose weight without being miserable.  I can eat low-carb and not be miserable. Best of luck to you. Liz in SLC 251.5/215.5/175  PP since 12/13/99 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fell off the carb diet.  I find it so horribly hard to follow.  Are all of the low-carb diets so strict.  Are there any that allow you potatoes, bread and fruit on occasion.  Even if in small amounts.  I did Atkins faithfully for 2.5 wks. and only lost 8 lbs.  I went in a restaurant one day and couldn’t stand it any longer.  I ordered a meatloaf dinner with potatoes, ate a hard roll which tasted like nectar of the god’s and ordered a fresh fruit plate to go with it.  I’ve been off ever since and naturally gained my 8 lbs. back.  I know, don’t yell at me.  Is there any one of these diets where you are allowed some of these foods in moderation, or even 1 of them everyday so you don’t feel so deprived?

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I guess one of the conclusions I’ve been making is that Atkins doesn’t have a nationwide network of stormtroopers that are going to swoop down on you if you decide to eat a potato.  

True.   We’re all human.   If you want to try again, do some more planning beforehand.  Write out your menus that you ate, and see how you can snaz them up so you don’t feel like you’re eating water and dry toast.   Put some menus on here, these folks are good as suggestions.     Buy a carb counting book and see what you CAN eat.   Someone here got me hooked on sunflower seeds and almonts (curse you.  :-)  and that seems to nix my snacking needs. Also, make sure your psychological needs are met.    I’ve ‘cheated’ as well, but only to get a tast of something.  I saw my wicked most favoritest potato chips in the store and just had to have them.  I had a small handful of about 6 chips – I really wanted the taste.  and it was heaven.   But that’s all I ate.  Low-carbing had gotten me to the point I didn’t want to sit in front of the TV with the whole bag any more.  So my ‘cheat’ wasn’t too much of a cheat, as I didn’t takein that many carbs.. -J — remove  nospam for correct e-mail replies… John McLachlan Draper Laboratory Cambridge, MA   02139-3563 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/johnmc Imagine a whole pack of penguins;   ready to explore your brain

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8 POUNDS!!!!  That was awesome, but apparently not very motivating because your cravings weren’t arrested yet. I guess one of the conclusions I’ve been making is that Atkins doesn’t have a nationwide network of stormtroopers that are going to swoop down on you if you decide to eat a potato.  If that’s what you want, then eat it!  If you suffer carb addict side effects, like fatigue, headache, crankiness, increased cravings for sweeter stuff, then that is the consequence.  But no one is going to tell you what you can and can’t eat.  This is for life, not a short-term diet. If you want to get those cravings under control, then you have to give your body a chance to withdraw from the excessive amount of carbs you’ve fed it for years.  Alcoholics know all about DTs and the other nasty side effects of alcohol withdrawal.  We have to recognize that this happens to us, too. Not yelling at you, just gently reminding you….. — Becky 5′2" 245/208/115 since 3/11/00 Don’t make me use uppercase…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fell off the carb diet.  I find it so horribly hard to follow.  Are all of the low-carb diets so strict.  Are there any that allow you potatoes, bread and fruit on occasion.  Even if in small amounts.  I did Atkins faithfully for 2.5 wks. and only lost 8 lbs.  I went in a restaurant one day and couldn’t stand it any longer.  I ordered a meatloaf dinner with potatoes, ate a hard roll which tasted like nectar of the god’s and ordered a fresh fruit plate to go with it.  I’ve been off ever since and naturally gained my 8 lbs. back.  I know, don’t yell at me.  Is there any one of these diets where you are allowed some of these foods in moderation, or even 1 of them everyday so you don’t feel so deprived?

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I fell off the carb diet.  I find it so horribly hard to follow.  Are all of the low-carb diets so strict.  Are there any that allow you potatoes, bread and fruit on occasion.  Even if in small amounts.  I did Atkins faithfully for 2.5 wks. and only lost 8 lbs.

*Only* 8 pounds?  In 2.5 weeks?  That’s a little under a 4-pound-per-week average weight loss, Ruth.  "Only" shouldn’t be in that sentence. However, you say that you find it hard to follow.  If you can’t live with it as a WOL (way of life) then you will gain the weight back. Perhaps you need to look into a moderate carb plan that will allow you some whole-grain products and some low GI fruit (BTW – Atkins does allow for fruit, just not ’til after induction).  Things like the Zone, SugarBusters, or the Carbohydrate’s Addict Diet may work better for you. Head on over to this group’s FAQ at:  http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/  and do some research. Good luck! Cheers, Nina — 100% Angst. http://www.theslack.com

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I fell off the carb diet.  I find it so horribly hard to follow.  Are all of the low-carb diets so strict.  Are there any that allow you potatoes, bread and fruit on occasion.  Even if in small amounts.  I did Atkins faithfully for 2.5 wks. and only lost 8 lbs.  I went in a restaurant one day and couldn’t stand it any longer.  I ordered a meatloaf dinner with potatoes, ate a hard roll which tasted like nectar of the god’s and ordered a fresh fruit plate to go with it.  I’ve been off ever since and naturally gained my 8 lbs. back.  I know, don’t yell at me.  Is there any one of these diets where you are allowed some of these foods in moderation, or even 1 of them everyday so you don’t feel so deprived?

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the first couple of times I fell off the wagon i went on a carb binge as well, I have learned the best thing to do (or try to do) is nip it in the bud. and get yourself right back on track.   Friday night I went out to dinner and the people I was with ordered a blooming onion, I gave in I ate it along with them. afterwards i could have easily said to myself that I had blown my diet for the day and proceeded to eat carbs, but I didn’t!  I ate my steak, skipped the potato and bread, and surprise surprise I was still in ketosis the next day. the only side effect I had was after dinner I went home an promptly fell asleep on the couch. 8pm on a friday night and I was dead asleep. one thing that really made me realize that LC was for me is when I fell off the wagon a few weeks ago, and was off lc for about 4 days, I was at the grocery store trying to decide what I wanted for dinner before going back on LC the next day. But I didn’t want any of that carby stuff, I just wanted a steak, so I restarted LC in the middle of a day, and have been doing fine on LC ever since that slip up. Tricia C. 322/270/172 — will be 20%bf  with my current LBM of 138 lbs.   52 lbs lost on Atkins since May 26, 1998 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Been on the diet a little over a week and was doing fine. I hate salads and such so I would just have a glass of milk in the morn to get some carbs in my diet which was working fine for me. Friday I had to get up early for work and instead got up late. Ran out the door with nothing to eat. By 1:00 I was starving to death and had no lunch (forgot from home). So after a trip to 7-11 I had a diet soda and a fish burger. I though the bun would not have all that much carbs so I just eat the whole thing as I was very hungry. Well to make a long story short. By the end of the day I had eating every kind of carb on the planet and 2hrs later fell into a sugar rush coma. Got up at 6am with one of the biggest headachs of my life!!! I feel like I have a hangover and I don’t even drink!!! This just goes to show how a "few" carbs can mess you up if your not careful.

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Same thing happened to me (ate pizza, b-day cake) then I gained *7* pounds then became angry (sad maybe??) then binged for a couple days, gained a couple more (my news server was down those days and I REALLY missed the group here).  But, to make a sad story short, I jumped back on the wagon and started Protein Power (was Atkins) and I’m now down 7 pounds from 205 and I’m WAY HAPPY.  It’s ok to fall off the wagon, just don’t let it get too far ahead of you.  RUN,  RUN like hell to catch up to the runaway wagon and you’ll be ok : Wummin~ 205/198/150 — Visit my homepage:  http://www.geocities.com/~wummin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been on the diet a little over a week and was doing fine. I hate salads and such so I would just have a glass of milk in the morn to get some carbs in my diet which was working fine for me. Friday I had to get up early for work and instead got up late. Ran out the door with nothing to eat. By 1:00 I was starving to death and had no lunch (forgot from home). So after a trip to 7-11 I had a diet soda and a fish burger. I though the bun would not have all that much carbs so I just eat the whole thing as I was very hungry. Well to make a long story short. By the end of the day I had eating every kind of carb on the planet and 2hrs later fell into a sugar rush coma. Got up at 6am with one of the biggest headachs of my life!!! I feel like I have a hangover and I don’t even drink!!! This just goes to show how a "few" carbs can mess you up if your not careful.

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Also schrieb James A. Smith: Been on the diet a little over a week and was doing fine. By 1:00 I was starving to death and had no lunch (forgot from home). So after a trip to 7-11 I had a diet soda and a fish burger. I though the bun would not have all that much carbs so I just eat the whole thing as I was very hungry. Well to make a long story short. By the end of the day I had eating every kind of carb on the planet and 2hrs later fell into a sugar rush coma. Got up at 6am with one of the biggest headachs of my life!!! I feel like I have a hangover and I don’t even drink!!!

BTDT.  You should’ve gone to a burger joint and gotten a big 1/4 pound hamburger and flung the bun. Betcha you’ll never do that again, huh?  <g  Get back on that wagon. It’s only when you give up that you’re beaten. —  Stack FAQ at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/4999/stackfaq.htm WARNING: Email replies/followups may be posted to Usenet at my discretion.            Back when I was a boy, we carved our own IC’s out of wood.          

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Been on the diet a little over a week and was doing fine. I hate salads and such so I would just have a glass of milk in the morn to get some carbs in my diet which was working fine for me. Friday I had to get up early for work and instead got up late. Ran out the door with nothing to eat. By 1:00 I was starving to death and had no lunch (forgot from home). So after a trip to 7-11 I had a diet soda and a fish burger. I though the bun would not have all that much carbs so I just eat the whole thing as I was very hungry. Well to make a long story short. By the end of the day I had eating every kind of carb on the planet and 2hrs later fell into a sugar rush coma. Got up at 6am with one of the biggest headachs of my life!!! I feel like I have a hangover and I don’t even drink!!! This just goes to show how a "few" carbs can mess you up if your not careful.

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* Not everyone is dietetic or hooked on carbs.

What?

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X-No-Archive: yes It’s hard to have a grip on reality when you in love with food.  she can’t help herself.  She was deprived and now must correct for it. You forgot to add "While she’s NOW losing weight."  :-)))

You’ll stall eventually because you’re eating foods you love. (I really don’t want that to happen to you, but I’m in "hate you mode" right now so I have to stay in character.)

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Hi, You forgot to add "While she’s NOW losing weight."  :-))) You’ll stall eventually because you’re eating foods you love. (I really don’t want that to happen to you, but I’m in "hate you mode" right now so I have to stay in character.)

You’ve been a tad bit cranky in general lately.  Something wrong? I have visions of you standing on your porch shaking your fist at the neighborhood kids yelling "You kids get off my lawn!" BTW, I sent you an email a few days ago.  Did you get it? Take care, Carmen — Please note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at gmail <dot com Hotmail isn’t working and is being abandoned

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Hi, You forgot to add "While she’s NOW losing weight."  :-))) You’ll stall eventually because you’re eating foods you love. (I really don’t want that to happen to you, but I’m in "hate you mode" right now so I have to stay in character.) You’ve been a tad bit cranky in general lately.  Something wrong?

No…well….I might have been a bit pissed last week, but things  are great right now… I have visions of you standing on your porch shaking your fist at the neighborhood kids yelling "You kids get off my lawn!"

Naw…being a meanie online is much easier than in RL.  In RL kids might decide to get even….here, I just get told off BTW, I sent you an email a few days ago.  Did you get it?

Yeah.  I mentioned you to Myra…and she said something about  you contacting her via a geocaching site many blue moons ago…but that she didn’t answer for some reason…I did pass along your e-mail in case she feels like writing… I remember Myra and Joan going geocaching in Vegas….apparently she enjoys it.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes X-No-Archive: yes It’s hard to have a grip on reality when you in love with food. she can’t help herself.  She was deprived and now must correct for it. You forgot to add "While she’s NOW losing weight."  :-))) You’ll stall eventually because you’re eating foods you love. Oh, I didn’t know you only had to eat foods you despised like SALADS to lose weight.  Funny how I stalled for 24 months on foods I loved! Yes, before you attack again – I liked the foods I was eating but was desperate for more VARIETY from all those SUMPTUOUS plates of cauliflower, string beans w/pork, steak, fish or chicken – water on the side.  And since I wasn’t losing any weight anyway, I may as well enjoy some variety *AND* lose weight. So tell us more how you must eat only food you don’t care for to lose weight Roger….

Hey –  I’m not in love with food, nor do I despise any foods….so if I had to eat nothing but cauliflower, string beans w/portk, steak, fish or chicken, I’d be fine.  Had you eaten less meat and had more veggies, you would have been fine.

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Hey –  I’m not in love with food, nor do I despise any foods….so if I had to eat nothing but cauliflower, string beans w/portk, steak, fish or chicken, I’d be fine.  Had you eaten less meat and had more veggies, you would have been fine.

I also like the venison, lamb, rabbit, turkey, goose, quail, shrimp, crab, salad stuff, asparagus, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrots, celery, mushrooms, spinach, squash, and an occasional turnip.  I’m not sure all of those veggies are low carb.  I would probably get sick of veggies if I only had cauliflower and green beans, too.  I didn’t used to like some of those veggies, but I think it was because DH likes to cook most of them into mush with lots of butter or bacon grease, it turns out that is what I don’t like.  I still can’t bring myself to try Collards.  I can only remember my mother serving salad, potatoes, green beans, corn, peas, and spinach when I was a kid.  I also thought iceberg was the only lettuce there was, it was the only kind I had ever seen. — No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey –  I’m not in love with food, nor do I despise any foods….so if I had to eat nothing but cauliflower, string beans w/portk, steak, fish or chicken, I’d be fine.  Had you eaten less meat and had more veggies, you would have been fine. I also like the venison, lamb, rabbit, turkey, goose, quail, shrimp, crab, salad stuff, asparagus, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrots, celery, mushrooms, spinach, squash, and an occasional turnip.  I’m not sure all of those veggies are low carb.  I would probably get sick of veggies if I only had cauliflower and green beans, too.  I didn’t used to like some of those veggies, but I think it was because DH likes to cook most of them into mush with lots of butter or bacon grease, it turns out that is what I don’t like.  I still can’t bring myself to try Collards.  I can only remember my mother serving salad, potatoes, green beans, corn, peas, and spinach when I was a kid.  I also thought iceberg was the only lettuce there was, it was the only kind I had ever seen.

So far, the only foods I can’t stand the taste of are horseradish, ginger, liver, and cilantro. — Michelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey –  I’m not in love with food, nor do I despise any foods….so if   I had to eat nothing but cauliflower, string beans w/portk, steak, fish or chicken, I’d be fine.  Had you eaten less meat and had more veggies,   you would have been fine. I also like the venison, lamb, rabbit, turkey, goose, quail, shrimp,   crab, salad stuff, asparagus, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrots, celery, mushrooms, spinach, squash, and an occasional turnip.  I’m not   sure all of those veggies are low carb.  I would probably get sick of   veggies if I only had cauliflower and green beans, too.  I didn’t used to like   some of those veggies, but I think it was because DH likes to cook most of them   into mush with lots of butter or bacon grease, it turns out that is what I   don’t like.  I still can’t bring myself to try Collards.  I can only remember   my mother serving salad, potatoes, green beans, corn, peas, and spinach   when I was a kid.  I also thought iceberg was the only lettuce there was, it   was the only kind I had ever seen. So far, the only foods I can’t stand the taste of are horseradish,   ginger, liver, and cilantro.

Cilantro?  Bummer.  That’s a good herb. — Bob in CT

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So far, the only foods I can’t stand the taste of are horseradish, ginger, liver, and cilantro.

I’ve always put horseradish in my cocktail sauce, I don’t know what cilantro tastes like but I have probably had it in my food in restaurants.  Liver will close my throat up and make me gag.  I don’t even like the smell when DH cooks some for himself.  Once, when I was pregnant, I managed to get three small bites of it down with about a quart of ketchup. — No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

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OK – look what it’s here?  A wagon!  Jump back on it! Sweet stuff – the long term method is to learn how to eat moderate amount of it.   The same applies to all other things.  Sweet stuff gives you a short term boost in blood glucose but it’s a dog that’s going to bite you shortly after, when you  feel lethargic and hungry when the blood glucose goes down again (rapidly in some cases).  I can hear my brain switching off half an hour after eating something carby / sweet.  In a way to me it’s eat sweet / carby food that I like and spend more time being sleepy, or eat a very limited amount of sweet / carby food and spend time being awake doing things I want to do. I noticed that you’re from UK.  Do you read The Observer?  Dr. Briffa, a columnist at the Observer Magazine, has written a book about diet and food allegy.  He says that we’re likely to develop a liking for stuff that we have allergies to.  Take a look: Sunday February 6, 2005 http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,1405173,00.html They are what they eat With the rise in skin complaints and asthma, obesity and attention disorders, children’s health is a constant battle. However, simple changes in their diet can help target these problems. In this extract from his informative new book, Dr John Briffa pinpoints the danger signs, and serves up the foods that’ll keep them sweet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I fell off again today.  It’s been two really good weeks, but I just lost it today.  I worry that I won’t be able to get back on tomorrow. I’m already thinking of the little cakes I could have for breakfast tomorrow and how I’m dreading that scrambled egg… or anything else that isn’t fluffy and sweet. I’ve got an Atkins shake in the fridge, and that’s the only thing that’s keeping me from going totally off it…. at least its sweet. Maybe I could down that for breakfast and be satisfied until lunch and then I might be OK.  Breakfasts are the hardest part of the day, aren’t they?  I love sweet stuff in the morning to get me going. Oh well…. I’ll keep you posted! JM Visit my blog … http://www.20six.co.uk/gigantical

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For 2 1/2 years I was deprived of so many of the foods and things I love – and never lost another lb on strict LC after that initial 46 lb loss.

Then you were doing something wrong.

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Personally, I think the definition of a "diet" is to be deprived of something (even if it’s only calories, such as in weight watchers —

* RIGHT!  To lose weight you must give up something – CALORIES/FOOD! although their point system also takes into account fat content).  When I was on low fat, there was tons of stuff I couldn’t eat.

*  Such as?  I can even use butter – just not loads of it. I never once felt "deprived," as I thought that my health and my athletic endurance was being helped by being on low fat (after being on low carb for a while, I’ve rethought that, but that’s a different thread).  Moreover, sugar is one of the worst things I personally can eat,

* Not everyone is dietetic or hooked on carbs. as it just keeps me wanting more. I try to only eat sugar at those times where something important is happening (a life event, such as a birthday, etc.) or sometimes as a treat, but even then I’m trying to minimize quantities of it (i.e., going to an ice cream store and splitting a small with my girlfriend).

* One tsp. of brown sugar can’t be considered "pigging out."  To say that you were deprived on a diet and are now going to eat sugar is just setting yourself up for failure, in my opinion.

*  You missed a few posts.  Once I took everyone’s advice here my diet was very, very limited, and YES I missed milk, cheese, nuts, coffee, diet Pepsi and all the other things they claim can cause a plateau or stall.  Slowly over those 2 years of "stall" I eliminated one thing after another – to no avail.  Seems no matter what someone claims they’re eating someone on this NG claimed it could cause stalling.  By the end of the 2nd year there was little left to give up – and my weight stayed stable.  My meals were far from SUMPTUOUS as Atkins called them. When I "started LC" in July of 2001 I gave up spuds, rice, corn, peas, oatmeal, lima beans, winter squash, watermelon, pinto and other beans I dearly loved, all fruit except berries when in season, whole wheat and raison cinnamon bread, carrots, macaroni, bagels, saltine crackers, and on and on….  odd that you didn’t give up all these things yet claim to be low-carbing.  Eating very small amounts of some of them made no difference either way (not going over 25 – 30 carbs a day). I did keep meat, fish, broccoli, cauliflower, celery,  (little salad.  I hate salad), string and wax beans, greens i.e. low-carb veggies.  It made no difference. ANY diet should advocate sugar reduction or elimination.

*  Agreed.  That one tsp is a whole 15 calories. — Wysong Age 60.  Height 5′6" 171/ 165 / 140 lb

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Bear in mind that some foods will cause you to retain or gain weight, and other foods will allow you to lose weight.

Which foods will cause a person to retain or gain weight, and which foods will allow a person to lose weight?  Control of your weight is in your hands, and it all depends on what you eat and how much you excercise.

Weight loss depends on what I eat?  If you want to feel guilty for splurging on something, that’s your business. You don’t have to live a completely low-carb lifestyle to benefit from it. Just bear in mind that the more carbs you eat, the less likely you are to lose weight or maintain control of your weight.

Is that true?  Some people follow a high carb, low fat diet and lose weight just fine. It will take someone a whole lot smarter than me to convince me that those basic premises are wrong.

Interesting.  Obviously.

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Sorry!

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You’re thinking of it as a struggle or battle.  L:et’s not do this.

As food is addictive, lighting up your dopamine reward centers just like coke, it is a battle. One that’s very hard to win.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes I can’t eat as soon as I get up.  Now on LC WW I have a cup of coffee with fat-free milk, Sweet & Low, 1 tsp. Carnation chocolate coffee flavoring and 1 tsp. of dark brown sugar.  Heavenly….. and only 1 pt or 60   calories. Why do you add the sugar? Because I love the flavor of brown sugar in my coffee.  It’s only 15 calories a tsp.  For 2 1/2 years I was deprived of so many of the foods   and things I love – and never lost another lb on strict LC after that   initial 46 lb loss.

Please, please stop posting to this group.  Every post you make has this   "I was incredibly deprived on low carb and never lost weight" aspect to it   that I can’t stand.  If you don’t like low carb, say it once and then go   to the "I love weight watchers" newsgroup or somewhere — anywhere —   else.  Actually, screw it, I’m going to put you in my very select filter   list (there’s you, JC, and MU). — Bob in CT

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes I can’t eat as soon as I get up.  Now on LC WW I have a cup of coffee with fat-free milk, Sweet & Low, 1 tsp. Carnation chocolate coffee flavoring and 1 tsp. of dark brown sugar.  Heavenly….. and only 1 pt or 60 calories. Why do you add the sugar? Because I love the flavor of brown sugar in my coffee.  It’s only 15 calories a tsp.  For 2 1/2 years I was deprived of so many of the foods and things I love – and never lost another lb on strict LC after that initial 46 lb loss. Please, please stop posting to this group.  Every post you make has this "I was incredibly deprived on low carb and never lost weight" aspect to it that I can’t stand.  If you don’t like low carb, say it once and then go to the "I love weight watchers" newsgroup or somewhere — anywhere — else.  Actually, screw it, I’m going to put you in my very select filter list (there’s you, JC, and MU).

It’s hard to have a grip on reality when you in love with food.  she can’t help herself.  She was deprived and now must correct for it.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes I can’t eat as soon as I get up.  Now on LC WW I have a cup of coffee with fat-free milk, Sweet & Low, 1 tsp. Carnation chocolate coffee flavoring and 1 tsp. of dark brown sugar.  Heavenly….. and only 1 pt or 60 calories. Why do you add the sugar? Because I love the flavor of brown sugar in my coffee.  It’s only 15 calories a tsp.  For 2 1/2 years I was deprived of so many of the foods and things I love – and never lost another lb on strict LC after that initial 46 lb loss. Please, please stop posting to this group.  Every post you make has this "I was incredibly deprived on low carb and never lost weight" aspect to it that I can’t stand.  If you don’t like low carb, say it once and then go to the "I love weight watchers" newsgroup or somewhere — anywhere — else.  Actually, screw it, I’m going to put you in my very select filter list (there’s you, JC, and MU). It’s hard to have a grip on reality when you in love with food.  she   can’t help herself.  She was deprived and now must correct for it.

Personally, I think the definition of a "diet" is to be deprived of   something (even if it’s only calories, such as in weight watchers —   although their point system also takes into account fat content).  When I   was on low fat, there was tons of stuff I couldn’t eat.  I never once felt   "deprived," as I thought that my health and my athletic endurance was   being helped by being on low fat (after being on low carb for a while,   I’ve rethought that, but that’s a different thread).  Moreover, sugar is   one of the worst things I personally can eat, as it just keeps me wanting   more. I try to only eat sugar at those times where something important is   happening (a life event, such as a birthday, etc.) or sometimes as a   treat, but even then I’m trying to minimize quantities of it (i.e., going   to an ice cream store and splitting a small with my girlfriend).  To say   that you were deprived on a diet and are now going to eat sugar is just   setting yourself up for failure, in my opinion.  ANY diet should advocate   sugar reduction or elimination. — Bob in CT

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Well, I fell off again today.  It’s been two really good weeks, but I just lost it today.  I worry that I won’t be able to get back on tomorrow. I’m already thinking of the little cakes I could have for breakfast tomorrow and how I’m dreading that scrambled egg… or anything else that isn’t fluffy and sweet. I’ve got an Atkins shake in the fridge, and that’s the only thing that’s keeping me from going totally off it…. at least its sweet. Maybe I could down that for breakfast and be satisfied until lunch and then I might be OK.  Breakfasts are the hardest part of the day, aren’t they?  I love sweet stuff in the morning to get me going. Oh well…. I’ll keep you posted! JM Visit my blog … http://www.20six.co.uk/gigantical

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Breakfasts are the hardest part of the day, aren’t they?

Not for me. The *first* thing I look forward to is my cup of tea in the morning. After that I do a little scrounging in the fridge to see what I can have. Lately it has been leftovers from the night before or a can of tuna mixed with some mayo and 2 of the highest fiber Wasa crackers I could buy. After that I have another cup of tea.  :-) You, in the red uniform, go see what that noise is!

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Maybe you would do better with a mock danish, or a chocolate omelet for breakfast. — Cheri

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, I fell off again today.  It’s been two really good weeks, but I just lost it today.  I worry that I won’t be able to get back on tomorrow. I’m already thinking of the little cakes I could have for breakfast tomorrow and how I’m dreading that scrambled egg… or anything else that isn’t fluffy and sweet. I’ve got an Atkins shake in the fridge, and that’s the only thing that’s keeping me from going totally off it…. at least its sweet. Maybe I could down that for breakfast and be satisfied until lunch and then I might be OK.  Breakfasts are the hardest part of the day, aren’t they?  I love sweet stuff in the morning to get me going. Oh well…. I’ll keep you posted! JM Visit my blog … http://www.20six.co.uk/gigantical

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You know you need to rethink just what a breakfast item can be.  I only have eggs in the morning once a week.  Mix up your meals.  It does help….. — bjgeiger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I fell off again today.  It’s been two really good weeks, but I just lost it today.  I worry that I won’t be able to get back on tomorrow. I’m already thinking of the little cakes I could have for breakfast tomorrow and how I’m dreading that scrambled egg… or anything else that isn’t fluffy and sweet. I’ve got an Atkins shake in the fridge, and that’s the only thing that’s keeping me from going totally off it…. at least its sweet. Maybe I could down that for breakfast and be satisfied until lunch and then I might be OK.  Breakfasts are the hardest part of the day, aren’t they?  I love sweet stuff in the morning to get me going. Oh well…. I’ll keep you posted! JM Visit my blog … http://www.20six.co.uk/gigantical

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Quit eating breakfast. — Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that.  – MFW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I fell off again today.  It’s been two really good weeks, but I just lost it today.  I worry that I won’t be able to get back on tomorrow. I’m already thinking of the little cakes I could have for breakfast tomorrow and how I’m dreading that scrambled egg… or anything else that isn’t fluffy and sweet. I’ve got an Atkins shake in the fridge, and that’s the only thing that’s keeping me from going totally off it…. at least its sweet. Maybe I could down that for breakfast and be satisfied until lunch and then I might be OK.  Breakfasts are the hardest part of the day, aren’t they?  I love sweet stuff in the morning to get me going. Oh well…. I’ll keep you posted! JM Visit my blog … http://www.20six.co.uk/gigantical

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I fell off again today.  It’s been two really good weeks, but I just lost it today.  I worry that I won’t be able to get back on tomorrow. I’m already thinking of the little cakes I could have for breakfast tomorrow and how I’m dreading that scrambled egg… or anything else that isn’t fluffy and sweet. I’ve got an Atkins shake in the fridge, and that’s the only thing that’s keeping me from going totally off it…. at least its sweet. Maybe I could down that for breakfast and be satisfied until lunch and then I might be OK.  Breakfasts are the hardest part of the day, aren’t they?  I love sweet stuff in the morning to get me going. Oh well…. I’ll keep you posted! JM Visit my blog … http://www.20six.co.uk/gigantical

You’re thinking of it as a struggle or battle.  L:et’s not do this. You can eat what you want when you want.  There are no Diet Police out there to arrest you for eating ice cream, candy, or whatever your cravings dictate you. Bear in mind that some foods will cause you to retain or gain weight, and other foods will allow you to lose weight.  Control of your weight is in your hands, and it all depends on what you eat and how much you excercise. If you want to feel guilty for splurging on something, that’s your business. You don’t have to live a completely low-carb lifestyle to benefit from it. Just bear in mind that the more carbs you eat, the less likely you are to lose weight or maintain control of your weight. It will take someone a whole lot smarter than me to convince me that those basic premises are wrong.

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I can’t eat as soon as I get up.  Now on LC WW I have a cup of coffee with fat-free milk, Sweet & Low, 1 tsp. Carnation chocolate coffee flavoring and 1 tsp. of dark brown sugar.  Heavenly….. and only 1 pt or 60 calories.

Why do you add the sugar? You, in the red uniform, go see what that noise is!

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Question:

For anyone interested in low carb dieting, specifically to reduce their cholesterol, without any medication, read on. My total cholesterol started going up about 3 years ago. My total got up to 273 last fall. My weight was not a problem (5′10", 174 lbs).  I’m an avid runner (18 miles per week), 48 years old. No other cardiac risk problems.   My doctor suggested Statins but I don’t trust them.  I first tried various low fat diets, oatmeal etc with no success.  All along he had urged me to watch my carbs, which I really did not know how to do. Then I read the South Beach diet book.  After 12 weeks on the South Beach diet, my total cholesterol dropped from 273 to 217, Trigs dropped from 234 to 82, LDL dropped from 179 to 143 (still not great) and HDL increased from 47 to 58. My weight dropped from 184 to 174 lbs.  I have 3 other family members (all older) who tried low fat diets and are all on Statins (Lipitor etc). They were told by their doctors "it’s hereditary". Maybe it is for some people, I really don’t know.   I still have a ways to go but I’m hear to say that this diet works and you can lower your cholesterol without drugs.

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|| For anyone interested in low carb dieting, specifically to reduce || their cholesterol, without any medication, read on. || || My total cholesterol started going up about 3 years ago. My total || got up to 273 last fall. My weight was not a problem (5′10", 174 || lbs).  I’m an avid runner (18 miles per week), 48 years old. No || other cardiac risk problems.   My doctor suggested Statins but I || don’t trust them.  I first tried various low fat diets, oatmeal etc || with no success.  All along he had urged me to watch my carbs, which || I really did not know how to do. Then I read the South Beach diet || book.  After 12 weeks on the South Beach diet, my total cholesterol || dropped from 273 to 217, Trigs dropped from 234 to 82, LDL dropped || from 179 to 143 (still not great) and HDL increased from 47 to 58. || My weight dropped from 184 to 174 lbs.  I have 3 other family || members (all older) who tried low fat diets and are all on Statins || (Lipitor etc). They were told by their doctors "it’s hereditary". || Maybe it is for some people, I really don’t know.   I still have a || ways to go but I’m hear to say that this diet works and you can || lower your cholesterol without drugs. I’ve had the same experience.  Family members who constantly are on a low-fat diet continue to have sky-high triglycerides and cholesterol while taking two different statins concurrently; mine is in normal ranges on my low-carb way of eating.  The great thing I;ve found is that the cholesterol and triglycerides don’t go back up whe I stop losing weight as long as I maintain on low carb. — Peter 270/219/180 website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

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